“Start writing a little bit of something each day. It doesn’t have to be published. Just get into the habit of writing. The more you do of something, the less weight there is attached to it, the less pressure there is. Just keep doing it, and it will get easier.”
Emma McMillan
Do you feel like a confident copywriter?
Unfortunately, I think part of being an empathetic, thoughtful writer is questioning everything, including ourselves and that can lead to self-doubt, imposter syndrome and comparisonitis.
So how do we overcome that?
Today I’m chatting with a copywriting coach who specialises in building confidence in yourself and your biz, and setting up productive business practices that will help lure in all those lovely leads.
Tune in to learn:
- How Emma made her way from teaching to copywriting.
- What Emma’s first steps were as a copywriter
- What a copywriting coach is
- Common problems small business owners have when writing their own copy
- What business owners should be focusing on in their marketing
- What Emma’s pricing structure as a copywriting coach looks like
- How Emma deals with self-doubt
- Emma’s favourite copywriting tool
- Emma’s top copywriting tip for small business owners
Listen to the podcast
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And big thanks to Amiz_11 from Australia for their lovely review:
“A copywriting treasure trove. As a newbie copybeast, this podcast is equal parts informative and reassuring. Full of tips, insights and with a no BS approach to business, writing copy and mindset. And all while having a bit of a laugh. Kate is a great interviewer and presenter which makes listening easy. Thanks for the great content.”
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About Emma McMillan
Emma McMillan is a seasoned copy coach who helps small business owners develop their copywriting skills, confidence and habits so they can nurture their existing relationships, attract more aligned clients, build their authority and charge accordingly.
She is a former secondary teacher who has run a successful copywriting business since 2016. Emma’s unique skill set means she understands both how people learn and the realities of small biz life.
As host of the podcast Not Just About Copy, Emma shares inspiring business conversations along with practical coaching episodes on how to write better – with ease, purpose and flow.
Fun fact: Emma can recite the first 20 elements of the periodic table by heart.
Connect with Emma McMillan
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Transcript
Kate Toon
Do you feel like a confident copywriter? Unfortunately, I think part of being an empathetic thoughtful writer is questioning everything, including ourselves, and that can lead to self doubt, imposter syndrome and comparison itis. So how do we overcome that? Today I’m chatting with a copywriting coach who specializes in building confidence in yourself and your business, and setting up productive business practices that will help you learn in those lovely leads. Hello, my name is Kate toon. I’m the head copy beast of the clever copywriting school and online community and teaching hub for all things related to copywriting. And today I’m talking with Emma McMillan. Hello, Emma.
Emma McMillan
Hello Kate.
Kate Toon
Good to see you again. Emma was a longtime member of the clever copywriting school, she’s now branched out on our own to do many exciting things. So let me tell everybody, what you do. And let’s read out this bio. Emma McMillan is a seasoned copy coach who helps small businesses or small business owners develop their copywriting skills, confidence and habits so they can nurture their existing relationships attract more aligned clients, build their authority and charge accordingly. Love that. She’s a former secondary teacher who has run a successful copywriting business since 2016. And has unique skill set mean she understands both how people learn, and the realities of small business life as the host of the podcast, Not Just About Copy, Emma shares inspiring business conversations along with practical coaching on how to write better with ease, purpose and flow. Fun fact, Emma can recite the first 20 elements of the periodic table by heart. And she probably thinks I’m going to ask her to do it right now. But I’m not, know I know there’s a song isn’t there? It’s like there’s helium, potassium, manamanum and manamanum , do you know that song?
Emma McMillan
I don’t know the song, but I was worried that you were gonna put me on the spot. And I was just I was having a bit of a like mild panic about that.
Kate Toon
Okay. All right. Well tell me what the 17th element is then.
Emma McMillan
Oh Kate.
Kate Toon
Oh Kate. I’m just joking. You don’t have to. My son could do the song, which I think is very cool. You have to Google it after this is really good. Well, let’s not talk about atomic elements. Instead, let’s talk about the elements that bought you towards being a copywriter. So what did you do? You said you were a teacher before? What happened then? And why did you take a different path down into copywriting?
Emma McMillan
Well, I was totally burnt out for one thing. And I had also actually studied creative writing back at uni. But back in sort of the late 90s, around that time, kind of seemed like the only options to follow that path was to go into journalism, or to write books. There wasn’t, you know, the digital marketing space as it is now. And so I kind of thought, well, I don’t really know what I’m going to do with that. So that’s when I kind of studied education and decided to head down that path. But there was something that had attracted me to that writing space. In the beginning, it was kind of calling me and I was, you know, mid 30s. I’ve been teaching dance and drama on my feet for years. I was tired. I was you know, wanting a change. And I thought, you know, having a baby is a great opportunity to kind of take stock. It’s, you know, it’s a busy time, but it’s a quiet brain time. And so I actually got the capacity and the the headspace to think about, well, what do I really want to do? And what’s something different, I can try? A new teaching wouldn’t be my forever thing. I loved it. You know, I love being in the classroom and teaching the kids but the admin was just unbelievable. And I was just completely exhausted running rehearsals every weekend, things like that. And I just thought, yeah, what what else can I do? There must be something else out there.
Kate Toon
And that’s when you discovered copywriting funnily enough, oh, not funny at all. But I, you know, I always wanted to be a teacher. That was my goal. When I left school. Again, I thought that was a great way to use my love of writing and books. And again, like you, I guess, I thought it would just feel like you know, in the classroom talking about Shakespeare, and you don’t understand the amount of admin that’s on the other side of that, and also the petty politics and other commitments around that. So it is a lot and like you, I wasn’t aware that copywriting was a thing, you know, madmen wasn’t on the telly yet. You know, advertising I kind of didn’t really think that there were people that wrote ads, and I was lucky enough to kind of start my copywriting journey, right when the internet I mean, I really think the internet kicked off. You know, I remember the internet being born, you know?
Emma McMillan
Yeah me too.
Kate Toon
Yeah, it’s weird, right? And that really kicks off this this need for words in a much bigger scale than just traditional print ads and TV and all that kind of stuff. So you decided to make the move from teaching to copywriting and that was was that around 2016? Obviously, that’s when you started your business.
Emma McMillan
Yeah.
Kate Toon
What was what were some of your first steps?
Emma McMillan
The one of the first things I think I did was actually listen to you and Belinda on the Hot Copy pod, like I just would go for walks and I just kind of listened to it and just digest as much of it as I could. I did a couple of courses through Australian writer center. Eventually I found your community and just kind of realizing that I needed as much as anything as a community around me as well, because my friends, God loved them, but they’re not business owners or, you know, my friends that I’ve had for a long time. And so I didn’t have people who understood this kind of Small Business Route. And so, you know, I guess coming across all sorts of people, and being in those sorts of spaces was just so helpful in building momentum, and also kind of getting a sense of what was ahead, and what was coming up at what I needed to know and what I could expect, and just having people to just dump stuff on and be like, ah, you know, I’ve got to get clients, you know?
Kate Toon
You can do all the courses, you know, you can learn how to write, which is one thing, and you can get books on how to write, but there’s not as much teaching on how to behave, you know, and how to deal with difficult situations and how to win clients and market yourself and manage your money. And in reality, I think there’s a good comparison there to teaching, because you think it’s going to be all in classroom doing Shakespeare, but the admin side is almost 50% That’s what I always say, you know, and I like to talk to my copywriters in the membership that they’re not freelance copywriters, they are business owners whose product is copy, just as it can be a business owner whose product is coffee or graphic design, and the business side of it is just as important. If not more than the writing side. I often say I was never the best copywriter. But I was good at running a copywriting business. And I think, you know, that’s, do you agree? I mean, I think that’s-
Emma McMillan
100%. And I would never say I’m the best copywriter going around. But yeah, I feel like I’ve got an understanding of how business works. And that’s been so much of, you know, it’s contributed so much.
Kate Toon
To your success. Yeah, exactly. But then you’ve made a shift, which I kind of love and seems so apt to move from being a practicing copywriter into helping other people learn copy and being a copy coach. So what do you mean, when you say that you’re a copywriting coach, what does that actually involve?
Emma McMillan
Yeah, good question. And, you know, I really played around with the term because I know Coach has been thrown around a lot. And I don’t necessarily love it as a term, although I think copy coaching is a very catchy kind of title. But I feel like I’m more of sort of a mentor, a guide, a supporter, for those small business owners who actually really enjoy writing, and there’s quite a lot of them out there. And I guess I wanted to help them to feel more confident about the copy that they were putting out there to actually trust themselves that they could write newsletters to their, you know, to their clients that they could actually, you know, get on social media and share and not just like sit and, you know, spiral at their computer and think like, who am I to be this person to say this, you know, they didn’t want to hand over all of their copy to somebody else. I mean, that’s, it’s fine if you want to do that. But it can be very, prohibitively expensive, not to mention, you know, if you’re the sole business owner, I really encourage people to, you know, be the voice of their business as well as the face. And so there are people who really wanted to learn and be mentored in that way. And so I kind of have done that one to one, but also in a group membership model as well.
Kate Toon
Fantastic. So it’s your mainly focusing on small business owners who want to write their own copy rather than copywriters, who want to kind of improve their business. I love that. Because I do think that it’s a bit ironic in a way that everyone thinks they can write great coffee, just like everyone thinks they’ve got a great sense of humor, and good fashion sense. But, you know, and they probably can, because I do I 100% agree with you that I would rather see copy, bad copy, written by a small business owner themselves than schmick copy that’s divorced from the small business owner. Do you know what I mean? I don’t mind your quirks and your failings and your weird idioms and the fact that you haven’t used the semicolon in exactly the right way. Because it’s your true authentic voice. But if you can have your true authentic voice, and also use semicolons, correctly, that’s the win. Right? So what are some common problems that you see small business owners having when they’re trying to write their own copy? What are some common failings that you see them having?
Emma McMillan
Or the biggest issue is that I feel like they haven’t necessarily taken the time to really think about, you know, who their audience is, what the purpose of any copy their writing is. And sometimes that’s why I feel like there’s a bit of a disconnect, because it’s like, they haven’t even taken the time to really strategize that. So I always get people to sit down at the, you know, what’s the purpose of what I’m writing? Who am I writing it to? And what do I want the action to be that they take at the end, you know, so much copy is missing a call to action, we can assume that people know what we want them to do next. A lot of small business owners also get stuck in that stage where they talk a lot about the features of what they do or what they sell without really moving to the benefit stage. So kind of just always getting them to say, you know, so what, so what and
Kate Toon
We love the ‘so what’ line I mean, I think that’s really interesting to me. It’s really back to the core, isn’t it? You know, what are you trying to say who you’re trying to say it to? What’s the next step you want people to take? You know, something I love working on small business Zoners with this, like, Who do you? How do you want to come across? Like, have you actually sat down and thought who you are? It’s a very existential question. Are you trying to be something you’re not so you know, if you are an accountant, and your business is pretty, you know, anal detail focused, it’s you’re pretty introverted, that you’re trying to be the jazzy fun, crazy person do you need to be so really sitting down and working out your brand values and your brand personality, and how that fits with your audience? Because I thought you were gonna say it was things like, you know, teaching people how to spell and how to use adjectives and how to write headlines. But I love that actually, the first step is getting people to identify those actual marketing bits, you know, who are we? Who do we serve? What do we want them to do? Love that. And then talk to me about the features and benefits? Because I see this a lot, right? Yeah, just people just, I’ve got something, could you buy it? You know, it’s got this, this and this. And they’re not kind of telling a story. And they’re not kind of creating a narrative. So what sort of advice do you give around stepping away from just features and sales copy?
Emma McMillan
Yes, I think it’s just about like, well, what are the things that I really do is to get them to actually talk to the people that they serve? So talk to the customers and getting this, like, that’s worth customer information? So, you know, what, actually, is the transformation that happens? What actually is that is the process that people go through when they work with them? Because it’s not about Yeah, what what is the actual like, feature? Like, okay, the feature is, let’s see that. You know, they’re quick, and they’re fast. Okay, but what does that mean? Well, that means that, you know, if you’ve left it to the last minute, then this, I’m thinking of the accountant example, you know, that this accountant is the perfect fit, because they can actually, you know,
Kate Toon
turn turn around in 24 hours, yeah, totally.
Emma McMillan
But it’s like, we’ve got to draw that line, sometimes, you know, for the potential customer or client, because they don’t necessarily do that themselves. So it’s just always coming back to that. So what, but I mean, that’s sort of how my framework that, you know, the not just about copy stuff came about, because it was like, it’s really not just about the copy, it is about all those other sorts of things, it is about getting to know, you know, the audience that you’re connecting with, it’s getting to actually develop, you know, habits around writing as well. And that’s a big thing. You know, there’s lots of pressure to show up in, you know, be in social media and other places. And one of the things I really work with people on is like finding what’s your sustainable rhythm for doing that? Like, how do you actually do that in the first place? You know, when do you enjoy writing? You know, do your batching person? Are you someone who writes spontaneously? Like, what are your natural flows? And
Kate Toon
what’s your copy personality, and I think there’s a lot there about permission, as well to just like, write what you feel like you want to write and not feel you have to conform to particular guidelines, and you don’t need to post every day at five o’clock, you know, it permission, a lot of permission to just explore and experiment. Because through that experimentation is where the great copy comes from, you know, so for the copywriters listening, they’ll be intrigued on how you’ve kind of created this new model of, you know, having clients and now being a coach, do you still actually do any copywriting for clients?
Emma McMillan
Occasionally, I probably got, you know, a couple of projects a year that I might take on, they’ve got to be super interesting. I got brought out of retirement for local council recently who are putting together these fantastic like maps on things to do in the area. And I just was interested because it involves like, interviewing lots of small business owners and getting great stories, and so on. So it’s going to be a project that really interests me, but I think it’s important to just sort of do a little bit occasionally. But I certainly love the way that I work much more and much more in control of my time. That was one of the challenges I had as a working copyright. I was that no matter how strict I was, with my deadlines, and my processes, and so on, things just always blew out. And I’m a really, you know, I like to have an element of control around my work. And I found that really challenging.
Kate Toon
Yeah, so I know exactly what you mean, you are to some degree, someone else’s creature, you know, like you’re producing a product for them. And while you can have your boundaries at the end of the day, you’re a supplier and there is a certain attitude, attitude and atmosphere to that. So I totally get that. And I’m the same, like I still think it’s good to do copywriting here and there to keep your hand in. Obviously, I write 1000s of words now for my own business, but I like to do the occasional copywriting job, because I think it keeps you hooked into the challenges that people have and also managing that relationship, you know, because it’s slightly different. I think with a coach, there’s a little bit that you’re looking up to the coach, you know, they’re advising you and I think sometimes as a copywriter, it can feel a little bit like the client sees you as their person to produce copy for them. So that kind of relationship is good to be refreshing. Refresh yourself. I also noticed that you offer in house coaching for clients. That’s something I always found super challenging. So I used to go in and do like full day sessions with big brands. I’m eHarmony of the Catholic Church. Good grief. I found that super draining. So how do you pull that together and how often do you do in house training? Super tiring, so yeah, yeah,
Emma McMillan
I don’t do it that often. But I actually love it because it’s like stepping back into the classroom for me. And I really like I love all the online delivery that I do, but there’s nothing like stepping into a physical space. And I really, you know, I get a lot from that in terms of the energy back, and I just can see that there’s people in the room often crying out for just some of these real fundamentals.
Kate Toon
So you’re gonna say those people in the room crying then which well, you know,
Emma McMillan
maybe after I’ve left, though, but you know, I like that, but I don’t do it that often. Because yeah, it does definitely deplete me at the same time, as it gives me, you know, a lot of great energy. So yes, it is, it’s something to do, you know, in small doses,
Kate Toon
I find that with coaching, and generally, and I want to come on and talk a little bit about pricing for coaching, because obviously, this is something I talk about a lot in the membership. You know, how do you charge for your coaching to do it on hourly rates? Do you have free IP days? Do you do flat rates? What’s your pricing structure, because I think anyone who’s interested in doing a similar thing would be super interested in that.
Emma McMillan
Yeah. And it’s something I’ve thought a lot about. And I think one of the things that, you know, I really got, from my time in the community with you was that, always trying to think about like the value of the pricing, and so trying to price, you know, more for the project and the value rather than ever doing sort of hourly transactional kind of rates. So I do have an hourly service, but I don’t really promote it, what I really like to do is work with people for three months, one on one, that’s sort of the main way that we work together. And that’s sort of a package because they get not only the hours with me, but they also get in between support. So they get copy, review, and, you know, available on email, things like that. So it’s more just a price that incorporates all of that support. And then I have my membership, which is a monthly recurring fee for those people who come and do the weekly sessions as part of the community. So even with the with the hours session, I very much try and build in the fact that it’s not just me showing up for the hour, it’s me reading through your questionnaire, prepping, etc. And following up. So it’s actually it’s never just trading time for money. I feel like that’s a real trap. Because then you’re really just comparing people on price. And it’s not really about that. So wherever possible, I always try to go for that value based pricing.
Kate Toon
Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, though, I do think a lot of people will compare on price we can, we can Yeah, you know what I mean? It’s just, it just is what it is, isn’t it, my rule of thumb is always, you know, you have your doing rate, and that your training or coaching rate should be at least three times more than that. So you know, if your hourly rate is 150, then your coaching rate should be what’s my maths for 50. But in reality, as you said, you don’t charge for the hour that you’re talking to them, you charge for the hour of prep, and the hour have come down, and the follow up, and the whatever. And so therefore, it ends up being a little bit of a package. But I think that’s a good rule of thumb three times as much or four times as much because you can give away a lot when you’re talking to someone and coaching them through. But I also love the fact that you’ve moved into a membership model. Obviously, that’s my my model that I use across the board. Because I think, you know, with coaching, you need it in the moment. But also you need, you know, for that hour, that’s great. But then you often find a couple of weeks later, you’re like, what did we even talk about, like, I’m looking at my notes, I do not understand what she was saying. And you want to be able to just reach out when you want to reach out. And that’s why I love a membership. Because it’s there all the time, you know, you can just jump in and ask a random question. So is it you know, it? I guess that’s a stupid question. But is it working for you is are you finding this is a better model for you financially, spiritually, mentally? Is this is this a better way of working for you?
Emma McMillan
It is, it is, it’s, it’s much better. I feel like I really have a lot of control over my time. My membership is a little bit different in that I have weekly sessions, but I don’t have in between stuff. So I don’t have a Facebook group. I’m kind of allergic to Facebook. For me, I found that that I find them very mentally draining. And I really try to spend as much time off socials these days as I can. So I’m really trying to focus on like when I’m in the moment with those clients, whether it be one on one or in a group, like I’m 100% there, but I’m not, I can’t give that you know that day to day support anymore. Like in that sort of forum. It just doesn’t work for me. So I’ve been really good over the past couple years, I think really tuning into my energy. And I have particular days the week that I’ll coach and then other days, I just have to go into my little cave and do my admin and have my like, regroup time. So I think it’s it’s suits. Yeah. So it’s my way of working and I like that I can control my calendar level.
Kate Toon
Yeah, I mean, this is it you decide, you know, if you like for me, for example, I don’t like doing stuff on Mondays and Fridays. So I don’t. My membership has nothing in it in December. So that’s just that, you know, you don’t want to buy that don’t buy that. But equally, you know, it’s I love the fact that you’ve matched it to who you are for you. For me, I love nothing more than talking shit in a Facebook group and bantering, that’s my that’s my joy, you know, so that I think it’s really important. I guess you’re a bit of an ambivert. But yeah, and I find that I do like the performance element, as I call it, the coaching the presenting the master classes, but I can only do so much of it. There’s only so many hours a week of that, that I can manage. And then like you I need to go into my borrow, you know, reconcile my zero, turn some music on and not talk to a living cell. So you’ve really sounds like you’ve created a business that just totally fits you your personality, your goals, which I love. One of the things that you do talk about on your site is self doubt. And I know you’re working with small business owners, but you know, self doubt is kind of the Achilles heel of all copywriters. You know, we’re incredibly empathetic, that’s our superpower. But it can also be our Achilles heel, our kryptonite, because we’re constantly questioning ourselves, and we’re very sensitive, we’re very empathetic. So how have you over the years dealt with those moments of self doubt? Where you’ve gone? Am I really the person that can do this? How have you managed to get yourself through that?
Emma McMillan
Now, firstly, I still say to myself nearly every day, so, you know, it’s but it’s almost like, just do it anyway. You know, I think I remember the first interview I ever did for the podcast. So my podcast is 84 episodes in now. But the first one I did, I interviewed my former coach. And I said to her, I can’t even do the video, like, I, I’m too nervous. It’s just it feels too overwhelming and whatever. And I think to myself, like it was just a made it into such a big deal. But someone’s like, the more you do of something, the less weight there is attached to it, the less pressure there is. So that’s kind of what I would say, just just keep doing it. And it will get easier
Kate Toon
to go through the motions, you know, like try to just turn your emotions off to a degree and just go through the steps in a kind of weird way. And the more you go through those steps, it just becomes second nature. You know, like, I’ve feel now after all this time that I could literally turn up at events, realize I’d forgotten the slides and talk about anything for an hour, I could do that. And they would not even raise my heart rate at all. Talk to me five years ago, either literally prove myself if that had happened, you know. And that has just come from again and again. Repetition, repetition, repetition. And I do I don’t believe in talking the talk before you can walk the walk. I don’t believe in kind of pretending to be something you’re not. But I do believe that simply going through the motions enough. That’s where the confidence comes from, you know, What did Pablo say you find your inspiration while working. You find your confidence while working as well. So I love that and my great, great tip just get on with it. What’s the worst that can happen? Okay, do you? Are you a tools copywriter? Is there a copywriting tool that you just could not live without?
Emma McMillan
I love Hemingway editor because I am a long sentence person. No matter how much I try and change my ways. Inevitably, I just have a lot to say I listen to you talk to God and talking about being you know, you’re the snappy kind of one line person I’m like the long for me kind of person too. So I love to just drop my copy in there and just have a look at it and be like, Whoa, yeah, just, it’s time to just break some of those things up just be a bit more punchy. Like, it just doesn’t come as naturally to me. So just I find that a really useful tool just for getting a visual of what my copy looks like.
Kate Toon
I love that. I mean, it’s funny because there are so many great tools. I must admit, I don’t use any tools for anything, not even Grammarly. I’m very much a people person. So I like to write my stuff and hand it to someone else. I’d love to get someone else’s feedback on it. I’m so old school and I can’t even be bothered with Google Docs. Mr. I’m gonna get left behind. I’m a dinosaur.
Emma McMillan
Oh my god. I was gonna say Google Docs. And I was like, I bet you. I bet you don’t even like think of that as a tool. I mean, it’s my favorite tool. Yeah,
Kate Toon
I mean, it’s, it’s great for me, I’m so anal about formatting. And I can’t cope with Google Docs because it’s sometimes it messes up my formatting. And I would sacrifice ease of use shareability cloudiness, just to get my 11 point font to be 11 point and that’s just me, we’ve all got our weird stuff, right? I love my format, you know, with all my templates and copy decks. So imagine is I’m not gonna say a newbie copywriter. Imagine there’s a small business owner listening to this today. And they, you know, maybe they have been holding back from writing copy or they’re spending a lot of money on a copywriter keep doing that good on you. But they would love to start to take ownership of their own copy and start doing it themselves and that they think they would enjoy that, whatever, maybe some a couple of steps that they could take to start writing their own copy with confidence.
Emma McMillan
I mean, I would just start with just writing a little bit of something each day, you know, I tell my clients, you know, even if it’s just like, literally start to write the grocery list or you start to write like, whatever, it doesn’t have to be something to be published, but just actually getting into the habit of writing something because like I was kind of saying before, the more you put something off, the bigger it becomes. And it’s sort of like, if you just break it down into little chunks, then you don’t really attach that weight to it, then it doesn’t feel as scary. So just the process of actually writing and writing by hand as well, just a bit of pen to paper, even taking yourself into a different environment. Like I just love to do a lot of my creative writing or my you know, my marketing stuff at the cafe, you know, because it just kind of gets me into a different headspace. So just shaking up that environment, go to the library or something, and just see what that different space does for your brain.
Kate Toon
I love that I can’t write by hand anymore. I think my hand is just, it’s lost that ability. But I’m so much faster on the keyboard. But I do like your tip about going to a cafe. I think when I thought I was going to be a copyright. I thought I’d spend all my time in a cafe. I thought that’d be really cool. But I find that while it’s great to change the headspace, I think if I’ve got serious writing to do I have to be at home in my little environment. But you’re so right, like things just pop into your head because you’re stimulated and there’s coffee, and there’s people and it’s that’s a really great idea. Some people really recommend the morning pages, which I remember like 10 or 15 years ago, I did that just writing solidly for an hour or however long it takes you to fill up three pages just writes and other people recommend typing out other people’s copy. That’s a big old school copy tip. So find someone that you like or a brand that you like, and just write, copy that copy into a Word doc. So read what they’ve written, write it up, and you’ll start to learn how to write as you’re writing it up. But I do think the main thing there is to just keep writing. Keep going. A little example from yesterday, I finished a call. We had a great call in the membership of a lady called Esther Nagel, I loved it so much. And I just sat and wrote a little post and put it straight onto Instagram didn’t get it pre Fred didn’t even put it in Hemingway. And it just came out in a blurb. And I sent it to peepers had some good reactions, right? Someone writes this poetry. And I’m like, I was just lovely. You know, we love that dude. But I’m like, five years ago, three years ago, two years ago, I couldn’t have done that I would have written it and saved it on my phone and showed it to three people that have passed it through Grammarly. I’d have added today I’d cut and paste it into Word, maybe even Google Docs, then I posted it. But now I just don’t give a shit. And that has come from just writing and writing and writing. So I love that Emma. Fantastic. So where can we find out more about you and all your coaching and your offerings where’s the best place to go? Best place is my website. It’s Emma McMillan copy.com. And my podcast is Not Just About Copy because it’s not just about copy Kate although it is a lot about it is a lot. So I’ve included links to Emma’s website, her LinkedIn, her Instagram and her podcast in the show notes. You can see those at clever copywriting school.com. But Emma, thank you so much for coming on the show and I’m so chuffed that you’ve created this beautiful business that fits so well with your personality and your your life. It’s the dream.
Emma McMillan
Thank you Kate. Thanks for having me.
Kate Toon
Okay, fantastic. Well, that’s the end of this week’s show. If you want to grab more copywriting tips, you can head to the misfit entrepreneur group on Facebook or the I love Seo group. And thank you Emma McMillan, but also thank you to Amiz_11 from Australia for their lovely review. A copywriting treasure trove as a newbie copywriter. This podcast is equal parts informative and reassuring, full of tips and insights with a No BS approach to business, writing, copy and mindset. All are having a bit of a laugh. Thank you. Katie is a great interviewer and presenter which makes listening easy. Thank you for the great content. Thank you for the lovely review is so kind when people take time to write these reviews. It does mean a lot, because I obviously don’t get to talk to my audience that much. So it’s really nice to get those reviews. And thanks to you for listening. If you want to leave a review, you can do it right now whatever app you’re listening to check out the screen and tap on review and you can leave a little review and we’ll get a shout out on the show. As I said the show notes for this episode are on the clever copywriting school if you want to go and check out Emma’s coaching offering you’ll find all the links there as well as lots of other goodies, templates, free resources in the clever copywriting school shop. So that’s it for this week. Until next time, happy writing
