“Just keep showing up. When you have no work, work in your business. Write a blog, do research. Work on a course. Turn up and sit at your desk.”
– Nerissa Bentley
Niching, it’s a word that sends shivers down the spines of many a copywriter.
Won’t I get bored writing about the same thing all the time?
How will I handle client conflicts?
Will I have to turn down clients who aren’t in my niche?
Today’s guest Nerissa Bentley has built a hugely successful business by narrowing her focus to health. She’s taken on big brands and bigger budgets, honed her marketing, and polished her processes so now the majority of her work is either retainer, repeat or referral (the dream).
But as well as that she’s worked hard on her own physical and mental health to find balance and get to the deep-rooted issues that were holding her back.
Tune in today to find out how becoming a specialist has helped Nerissa build a business she loves on her own terms.
Tune in to learn:
- What was Nerissa’s journey to being a copywriter
- Why did Nerissa decide to niche
- The positives of niching
- Dealing with getting bored
- Dealing with client conflicts
- The financial benefits of being a niched copywriter
- Nerissa’s two biggest copywriting wins
- The importance of getting to the source of your business challenge
- Nerissa’s favourite copywriting tool
- Which book would Nerissa take to a deserted island (clue: It’s not the ARPHA guidelines)
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And thanks to tftutf from Australia for the lovely review:
“Another fabulous podcast from Kate Toon.
Can’t wait for more episodes from Kate Toon, have loved all her podcasts so far and I’m sure this one will be just as brilliant!”
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About Nerissa Bentley
Nerissa Bentley is The Melbourne Health Writer.
She writes credible, evidence-based, AHPRA-compliant health content for national organisations, global corporations and health practitioners so they can connect with patients and the wider community, and be seen as the trusted health authority in their field.
Fun fact: Nerissa can see ghosts! In fact, she’s had five ghostly encounters.
Connect with Nerissa Bentley
Useful Resources
Transcript
Kate Toon:
Hello. My name is Kate Toon, and I’m the head CopyBeast at The Clever Copywriting School, an online community and teaching hub for all things related to copywriting, and today I’m talking to Nerissa Bentley. Hello, Nerissa.
Nerissa Bentley:
Hi, Kate. Nice to be here.
Kate Toon:
It’s lovely to have you. I’m going to read out your bio which tells me that you are the Melbourne health writer. I love the definitiveness of it. Nerissa writes credible evidence-based AHPRA-compliant health content for national organisations, global corporations, and health practitioners so they can connect with their patients and the wider community and be seen as the trusted health authority in their field. Nerissa’s secret fact is that she can see ghosts. In fact, she’s had five ghostly encounters. Tell us, what do you mean?
Nerissa Bentley:
Oh, I know. Well, it’s a bit strange because I’m not woo-woo when I do my writing, but actually I do have a woo-woo side. So I’ve seen ghosts at Port Arthur, so’s my husband at the same time, the same thing. I’ve seen them up at Beechworth. I’ve heard them. I’ve felt them. I’ve smelt them, and there’s other people in my family who’ve also have ghostly things happen to them. So, maybe I’m a bit of a, I don’t know, got a bit of a paranormal streak.
Kate Toon:
Ghost whisperer. Yes, maybe that could be your new thing. I sort of want you to have a grey streak through your hair if you’re going to be that kind of…
Nerissa Bentley:
Oh, I did in COVID, I did.
Kate Toon:
Oh, okay, or a skunk streak in your fringe, like a mystic Meg. Yeah, I feel like I’ve seen a ghost once as well. It was in Thailand. I don’t know. I don’t know. I’d like to believe they exist, but I don’t know.
Nerissa Bentley:
I think they do, yeah.
Kate Toon:
But you know what does exist? Great copywriters. Boom. See what I did there?
Nerissa Bentley:
Yes I do. Yes, absolutely.
Kate Toon:
So, you are one of them, and I’ve loved following your adventures over the last, gosh, what is it, five or six years, but take me back before you were a copywriter, and I’m going to ask you to be succinct here cause we’ve had some feedback that the little intros from the copywriters are a little bit War and peace. So, take me back. Tell me like five key milestones on your journey towards being a copywriter.
Nerissa Bentley:
Okay. So, I went to uni and I studied a journalism and communication studies, but I came out not wanting to become a journalist because it was a bit too cut-throat. So, I then worked in various health organisations. I’ve worked at a Cancer Council and public hospital, and I worked in admin, and then I sort of started to do a bit of writing and organising events, and then I moved over to the University of Melbourne where I worked in alumni relations, and I did a lot of more copywriting there. So, I didn’t even realise it was copywriting. I was just writing newsletters, writing magazines, working on the website, organising events.
And then I left there to have my two children and went back to work part-time, and then I found this really good job advertising. It was like at home writer wanted. So, I applied and it was for a corporate wellness company. So, I worked from home for three and a half years part-time which was fabulous because I had little kids then, and then that came to an end because the job became redundant, and they asked me to come and work full-time in the office, and I said no because it was just not working with family. It was a lot of commuting. So, I decided to go out on my own, and that corporate wellness company was my first client. So, there you go.
Kate Toon:
I love that. I mean what a dream job to find when you’re just a new mom. Work at home writer, I mean that’s like the dream to not have to have your own business, but to just have that steady work. Amazing. And you’re not the first person who’s told me that when they have decided to leave a company, their first client has been the company they just left. Belinda who I did the Hot Copy Podcast with, that was her story as well, and that’s a great segue, especially if the working hours or the conditions don’t suit your lifestyle, don’t just leave. Leave and say, “But I could still do the role in this capacity.”
So, I think that’s an amazing start, and I think there’s no surprise about the next question. One thing that you are kind of the champion on, I should have mentioned as well, you should have mentioned it in your bio, that Nerissa is an ambassador in The Clever Copywriting School, and one of the things she talks about a lot is nicheing. So, go, pretend I’m confused. What are you nicheing in? It’s hair dressing, right?
Nerissa Bentley:
So, I am a health and medical writer. So, I write health and medical content, but a bit more specific to that, my sweet spot is writing patient information. So, really getting into complex information, breaking it down into a way that the average person can understand, and then take some information and actually go and do something with that’s going to make a difference to them, and alongside that is AHPRA compliancy. So, health practitioners in Australia have to follow certain legislation when they advertise their health services, and that can be really tricky to navigate and understand, and let’s be honest, most of them don’t have time to actually get into the nitty-gritty to do that. So, I help them understand what those are and how that relates to their business and how they can actually write their copy so they are complying with the relevant legislation as well.
Kate Toon:
There’s a few little things to pick out there. I must say, I find the idea of writing patient information would be super satisfying because we’ve all been to the hospital, picked up those leaflets, and just been like, “What the hell is this talking about?” or you’re about to be signed into have an operation, you’re reading through all the guidelines of what’s going to happen, and you’re in a bad state already, and you just can’t understand a word of it. So, I would love that kind of plain English conversational element of doing that. It’s almost like doing a translator in that respect, really enjoyable. And then the AHPRA thing, was that something that you had to get a qualification in? Is that something you’ve taken on board yourself? How did you become AHPRA compliant? How did you learn about that?
Nerissa Bentley:
Well, like a lot of my copywriting stuff, I kind of fell into it and was a bit of an accident. So, I was starting to write copy for health practitioners, and they would say, “We need to follow the guidelines,” and so they sent me a link to the guidelines, and I was just so bamboozled by what they were and how hard they were to actually read and navigate and understand. And so, for me to be able to write copy for my clients, I had to learn what those were and what it meant for them. And so, because I was in and out of those guidelines so often, I went, “You know what? I’m actually understand these now and I can help other people understand them.” And so, that’s how I kind of did that.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I like that because again, I think someone might listen to this and think, “Oh, well I have to pass some kind of board certification to be an AHPRA compliant health content writer.” In my experience, I was a financial services copywriter, and similarly, similarly, I can’t say it. In the same way, they have guidelines that you have to comply with. You can’t make overpromises, and they do rely a lot on the copywriter to make sure that they’re compliant. Obviously, there’s usually legals as well that the copy pasts through to make sure they haven’t, but they don’t want to have to start from scratch. But again, I didn’t do any kind of qualification. I took it upon myself to become super familiar with them. Obviously, it took time, same as you, but now that is a real point of difference for you because there’s a lot of wellness writers or writers in the space, but you have that edge, that little edge there that says, “Yes, and I can also cover your bottom with this,” which I think is fantastic.
Now, you’ve niched into medical copywriting. What has that meant for you having such a clearly defined niche? What have been some of the positives of that?
Nerissa Bentley:
So, I know who my target audience is, who I want to work with, so marketing is really easy. I don’t have to spend, I actually don’t spend any money marketing, and I don’t even spend that much time, let’s be honest, on my socials marketing because the medical industry is quite small really, and it only takes you to do one or two really good jobs and word gets around the industry, and people move around as well. So, a lot of my work comes from referral plus Google, thanks to your SEO recipe course.
So, nicheing means that I actually am working with clients who have money, and I know that’s when I first started, anybody with a pulse and a wallet was my client, and I was writing for all kinds of industries, but nicheing means that I actually really hone my craft in health and medical. So, I become that specialist, and then people seek out a specialist when they want something done well. It’s just like you go to a brain surgeon if you’ve got something wrong with your brain, you’re willing to pay for that. So, if you need something done well, you go to the specialist, and so that means that I can charge more, I never am without work, and I’m actually doing stuff I really love.
Kate Toon:
I love that. Now, two of the things that people always say when we talk about nicheing, two of the concerns are, number one, that you’re going to get bored writing about the same thing again and again. So, what’s your answer to that one?
Nerissa Bentley:
Well, health and medical’s pretty broad. So, I can write about worms and I can write about kidney disease or ovarian cancer or whatever it might be. So, there’s so much variety within health and medical, but I think some people just have a passion for one particular thing. These financial advisors and investors, their passion is just investing in money. So, they’re not bored. So, I think if you find what you really like and what you’re really good at, then it’s hard to become bored. I think, for me, I would always be bored with something I didn’t quite understand because it would just be too hard to try and get my head around it, and then it’s like, “Oh, this is all too hard, and I can’t be bothered.”
Kate Toon:
Yeah, so I mean, there’s different topics that you’re covering, but also different channels. As you said, you’re doing patient information booklets, you’re doing websites, you’re doing email campaigns, you’re doing social media. There’s lots of channel differentiation there, and also just the variety of the different clients that you’re talking to each day. I agree, I think you did very well to choose a financially viable niche because often people say, “Well, I love travel so I would like to be a travel writer,” and lots of people want to be a travel writer, and maybe there’s not as much money because there’s so many more available people and blah, blah, blah. The thing I always talk about is the three circles with the little Venn in the middle, will I enjoy it, is it wanted, and will it make me money, and if you can get all three of those, you’re on a winner. Sometimes people pick, “I want it, and it’s needed,” but the money thing isn’t there. So, you’ve got all three which I think is amazing.
Now, the other challenge that people have when they do niche down, as you mentioned, the industry is small. How do you go writing for competitors? You’re doing something for… I mean, I know you do larger brands, but say, for example, you’ve written copy for a dentist in one suburb, and then a dentist from a suburb next to it comes along and it’s similar, it’s going to be pretty similar. How do you deal with that conflict of interest there?
Nerissa Bentley:
Yeah, so that’s a really good point. First of all, I would disclose to my client and say, “Look, I have just worked with another dentist. So, perhaps I’m not the right person.” If I’ve work with a dentist two or three years ago, it’s going to be a bit different because it’s not as fresh in my mind. And if they’re in a different area, so if it’s one’s in Melbourne and one’s in Sydney, then google my business and all the location stuff’s going to be different, and it also depends if there’s a difference in do they specialise in something. So, it’s kind of a case by case situation, but at the same time, I also wouldn’t take it on if I thought, “Oh, it’s more of the same. It’s going to be boring.” So, but I think being upfront with your client is really, really important because they may sort of say, “Oh, look, that’s a bit too close for comfort,” but I kind of have my sort of guidelines about what I will and won’t do anyway.
Kate Toon:
I think that’s good, setting your own boundaries. Look, I think as long as you’re honest, some clients will be turned off by that, some will be turned on. Is that the right expression? Some might go, “Okay, well, gosh, I love that website. Can you do mine as good as that?” It might be a positive, so don’t necessarily think it’s something you have to hide. I think as you said, if you did it yesterday or you’re currently working on it, it might be a bit of a challenge. I also think if you’re doing things like award entries and you’re writing for two businesses that are competitors of each other, you maybe shouldn’t, you shouldn’t be taking them on at the same time. That might be a bit dodgy.
And I guess, I said there were two things, but I guess the third big challenge that people have around nicheing is that it can be slow to get the word out that this is your niche, and in the interim, you want to keep the money coming in. So, how do you niche without cutting your nose off with all the other areas? Like in the early days, you weren’t the Melbourne health writer and you were doing other things. I mean, I think, I mean, probably, I’m going to say, “Was it a gradual progression?” and you going to say, “Yes,” but how did you cope in those early days when you weren’t known what for what you do? Did you take on other work or did you reject it? How did you work that?
Nerissa Bentley:
Yeah, so the very early days, my business name was totally different, and so that sort of reflected that I was a generalist, but over time, I was doing more and more health-related clients. So, I actually was working with an agency, and they knew my background in terms of working for this corporate wellness company so they would give me their health clients, and through that, I started to build my portfolio. So, I worked with some of the large pharmaceutical companies and health insurance companies, and once I had that as part of my portfolio, and I decided I want to do more of that, that’s when I consciously rebranded new logo, new everything else, new website and said, “I’m now the Melbourne health writer.”
So, it was a natural progression, but there came a point in time where I just had to jump in and go, “You know what? This is what I’m going to do, and I’m just going to do it. I’m not going to wait till all my ducks are in the line because the ducks are never going to be there, and I’ll still be faffing around.” So, you kind of got to just jump in when you think is the best time to jump in.
Kate Toon:
I like that. The line from my book is don’t wait till all your ducks are in a row because some of the ducks will be dead by then.
Nerissa Bentley:
Yes, exactly, exactly.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I like that. I think, so you say gradual progression, but that does come a point where you have to say, “Am I doing this or am I doing this? Am I all in?” and that’s a scary point. Even in my business at the moment, I’m thinking about pivoting. Yes, I said pivoting, I’m sorry. I’m thinking about pivoting towards something different, but I’m going to have to give up a lot to take that step, and it’s a risk because what if it doesn’t work, and it’s scary. But I like the fact that you made the decision, you waited until you built up a bit of a client repertoire, you had logos, you had testimonials, and then you took the big step and rebranded.
I think that’s a great way to do it, and the thing is as well, if you want to take a slightly gentler route, something that one of our other guests, Amanda Vanelderen, talked about is referring to it as your specialty, not your niche. So, I write all kinds of copy, but I specialise in this. I think that leaves the door a little bit more open and that’s helpful.
Nerissa Bentley:
It does, yes, yeah.
Kate Toon:
So, I mean, obviously you are one of the huge success stories in Clever Copywriting School, so much so that I’ve picking you as a pinup gal for our new webinar to talk about you and how I need to get in touch with you about that.
Nerissa Bentley:
Oh thank you.
Kate Toon:
What have been some of the biggest wins you’ve had since rebranding as a niched health copywriter?
Nerissa Bentley:
So, I thought about this question and there’s actually two things I want to say. So, one is the kind of clients that I work with. So, once upon a time, they were on my bucket list of my absolute dream, oh my God, it would be amazing to work with those clients, and now I do work with those clients, and one of them liked my work so much that I actually work with them two days a week now, and they were on my dream list forever. So, that’s been a great win.
And the other one relates more to, and I don’t like to use this phrase, just, it’s not a flippant phrase, but more of a little guy. So, I work with big companies, but I also work with individual health practitioners, and there’s one practitioner who has been such a great supporter of mine, and I’ve worked a lot of with his business, and I can’t go into too much detail, and there’s a whole case study on my website, but basically my AHPRA knowledge helped save his butt when it came to a medical company making false accusations about his integrity in his business. Cut a long story short, a medical device that he had bought from overseas is now being investigated by the TGA because they were not using acceptable evidence to advertise that and sell that to health practitioners in Australia.
So, that was such a huge win for me because my client was threatened to go… He was called in, “You have to go to court and you’re going to get fines.” And my knowledge and my thoroughness of looking through all the referencing for his website, he was able to prove to AHPRA that he was doing his due diligence, and so AHPRA then fed that back to TGA, and they’re being investigated. So, that’s a massive win-
Kate Toon:
Huge win.
Nerissa Bentley:
… for my client, for my client, but I’m also really proud of the work that I did to help him get there.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, that’s a beautiful story. I love that. That’s amazing.
Nerissa Bentley:
Yeah.
Kate Toon:
Now, obviously I love the fact again that you’re quite transparent in the group about your highs and your lows. What have been one of the challenges around your copywriting business? What have you struggled with over the years?
Nerissa Bentley:
So, look, having children, when I first started, they were younger. So, there was a lot more hands on required, but as they say, little people, little problems, big people, big problems. So, we’ve over COVID and lockdowns and things, our family’s experienced a whole lot of health challenges. Some of them are mental health challenges, and so trying to juggle and manage family with health issues and lockdowns, and even when we were in lockdown, my mental health wasn’t so flash. I’m in Melbourne. So, we were locked down for a long time. So, just trying to keep the wheels turning wasn’t always easy, and there were some weeks where I just went, “Ugh, it’s all too hard. Do I even want to be doing this?” But I do want to be doing it. We just have days where we just go, “Oh god, I don’t want to be doing this.”
Kate Toon:
I know. I mean, you come across as very driven, and I imagine from our conversations that you are somebody that prides themselves on their productivity, on their professionalism. And so, when you can’t show up as that person because of issues with family and mental health, we were just talking about this before the podcast that we’ve both been ill, you’ve had COVID, I’ve had flu and then sinusitis, and I haven’t been able to show up, I know that’s such a marketing term, show up as myself, and it’s pained me. It pains me. Although I do bang a good drum about life balance, and I do have that pretty much in place, being ill just feels annoying and frustrating, and I don’t allow myself to be like, “Well, it’s fine. In the grand scheme of things, two weeks doesn’t really matter.” It feels like it really does matter, and that can be really challenging.
We’ve talked about healthiness. You are hugely into your health and fitness. You have a very disciplined approach. Nerissa sickens me. Let me be honest, people. She gets up at 5:00 AM and does stuff. Tell us a little bit about your healthiness.
Nerissa Bentley:
So, yeah, look, one of the things that for me to operate as a decent human and a good business owner is that I have to be able to put myself first, and that means taking care of my physical health and my mental health. So, I do get up twice a week, early five o’clock to train.
Kate Toon:
Oh, it’s only twice a week.
Nerissa Bentley:
It’s only twice a week.
Kate Toon:
Oh, now it all comes out.
Nerissa Bentley:
Only twice a week.
Kate Toon:
She implied it was seven days.
Nerissa Bentley:
It used to be every day, but then I realised I actually need sleep more than I need to be up doing stuff. So, that’s been an evolving thing as well is learning that rest and sleep is part of taking care of myself, not just whipping myself with a stick and getting more work done. Yeah, so I prioritise walking every day, although when I had COVID, I couldn’t, but just putting my time for me to do my exercise and to eat well instead of grabbing rubbish and stuff and having family time.
So, one of the reasons I work for myself is so I can have time with my family and be there for my kids, and when I say kids, one’s nearly 17 and one’s 19 and a half, so they’re not so much children anymore, but they still live at home, and I still want to have time with them before they go off into the big, bad world and they’re not here anymore. So, reminding myself why I do what I do is a really good way to sort of go, “Okay, you can bring it back. The world’s not going to end. The sky’s not going to fall in if you don’t sit at your desk today.”
Kate Toon:
It’s such a hard balance, isn’t it? Because sometimes I’ll be right in the midst of something and I’ll be like, “Oh god, the son’s getting home from school in 10 minutes, and he wants to go…” We’re going to the gym or we’re doing this, and then I go, “Oh, the whole reason I set up my business was so I could be there for my son when he finished school and take him to that. So I’m being annoyed about the very reason that I started my business. Ridiculous.”
So, we’ve talked about healthiness, and I want to now talk about wealthiness. So, you’ve worked with some big brands. One of the things that you did a great masterclass for in Clever Copywriting School was not being afraid of those big numbers. You’ve made some big, I’m going to say it, I’m not going to say you’re Donald Trump because that’s very insulting, but you’ve made some money.
Nerissa Bentley:
I have, yeah.
Kate Toon:
Niching has financially served you and I think we need to talk about money a little bit more. Let’s talk about the money side of things. How’s that worked out for you over the years?
Nerissa Bentley:
Well, look, my first year in business, I made $5,000. So, that’s where I started because I didn’t know how to price things. I didn’t have proper… I’m a very processed person, but I didn’t have proper processes in place for my copywriting clients and pricing and things like that which is something I learned through Clever Copywriting School. Joining made such a big difference to the way I ran my business and how profitable I was.
Kate Toon:
Ah, thank you.
Nerissa Bentley:
Likewise. Yeah, but I think also as you get better at what you do, you become more confident in what value you bring. So, it’s easier to say, “You know what? I’m charging this and if you don’t want to pay that’s okay. Somebody else will.” So, I think a lot of copywriters have that imposter syndrome of, oh, I’m not worth it, and I shouldn’t be charging this, and I shouldn’t be charging that, and I think, “Well, why shouldn’t you?” And if imposter syndrome’s a real thing and preventing you from earning money, then go and work on your imposter syndrome before you start taking on more and more clients because to earn, say you want to earn that a $100,000, you can earn that by doing lots and lots of little things or a few big things. And often, that’s the difference is how you perceive yourself and the value you bring and how confident you are in yourself.
Kate Toon:
That’s it. I think that that mindset piece is something I always ignored because I think that part came easy to me, and now we have a whole path in our membership around mindset and fixing those issues in security, comparisonitis and imposter syndrome before you do your pricing, before you do your processes because otherwise you’ll erode all those good pricing and processing without even noticing that you’re doing it. We see a lot of copywriters in the group coming in, going, “Oh, I’ve got this quote and it comes out as this. I’ve worked out my hours, but it just feels too big. So, I’m going to knock a bit off.” And it’s like, “Why? You haven’t even sent it to the client yet. At least let the clients see it before you discount it.” You got a little knack for when you’re working with big brands. I like your little secret. It involves Mr. Google, doesn’t it, or Mrs. Google.
Nerissa Bentley:
Yes, it does. Well, you remember when I sent off my very biggest, scariest quote and I was like, “Oh my god, I don’t know, but I’ve done it,” and they said yes. So, yeah, one of the things, and I don’t do this just to work out how much I can charge, okay? So, I just want to make that very clear. But the industry I work in, there’s a lot of medical companies, and they make lots and lots and lots of money. So, some of them can make several hundred million dollars profit every year. So, one of the things that I try and keep, helps keep things in perspective for me is that I go and do a research into the company, and I look at their annual report, or whatever, or their financials, and I go, “Wow, I’m asking for X amount, and they have earned X amount by 1700 times. So, what I’m asking for is actually not a lot, and then if they really want to keep making this money, they know they have to spend money to make more money.” So, it then becomes, there’s no more emotion in it then.
Kate Toon:
I like that.
Nerissa Bentley:
So, it’s like, “Okay. You got that. I’m asking for this.”
Kate Toon:
It’s not that big of a deal. So, I like that. So, you’re not using it as a tool to up your prices. You’re using it as a way to affirm that your prices are really a drop in the ocean for them, and therefore you should have no qualms about sending them, and I think that still works with smaller businesses. I think sometimes it can work in the negative. So, you do the research, you realise they’re a startup. They’re either are a small yoga studio. They’ve only got a few classes and you’re like, “Oh gosh, I’m not going to be able to charge for my usual rates.” But then it’s like, well, they’re not at the level of business to be able to afford you. That’s not your problem. That’s their problem. They can come back to you and they’ve earned some money, but your prices aren’t dictated by the wealth of the person requiring them. Your prices are your prices and they should be based on what you need to earn to make money in your life, in your business, what value you bring, your experience.
We’re going to do a lot of episodes on pricing. It’s a bit of a pet peeve for me when copywriters don’t charge enough. Little note here, by the way, if you’re listening to the podcast, obviously you are, you’re listening, we’ve just updated our rate guide on The Clever Copywriting School, and we now have a rate guide for UK, AU, and USA. So, go and check that out if you want to get an idea of what the average rates are for copywriters by the hour and by project and by the day. Okay, so we’re wrapping up now. I want to come around to you. I’m not going to ask you the question about your most successful marketing strategy because you don’t really do that much marketing. A lot of your work is repeat, retainer, and referral. Ah, the dream Rs.
Nerissa Bentley:
And Google.
Kate Toon:
And Mr. Google. It’s not Mr. Google. Mrs. Google.
Nerissa Bentley:
Mrs. Google, yeah.
Kate Toon:
Yes. No to the patriarchy. What tip would you like to pass on to your fellow copywriter, maybe somebody who’s just starting out? What would be one of your biggest tips?
Nerissa Bentley:
Just keep showing up. So, when I had no work, I would work in my business. So, I’d work on my website. I would write a blog, or I’d go and do research about something, or I would be doing some kind… Might have been SEO recipe, and I was working through all kinds of different things. So, I always sat and turned up at my desk. And the other tip I would say is if there is something that’s really an issue for you in your business, chances are it’s probably an issue in the wider scheme of your life. So, if you are a people pleaser and you don’t want conflict and you just want to keep everybody happy, in your business, you’re not going to be able to push back on a client. You’re not going to be able to say, “This is what I’m going to charge.” You’re not going to be able to… You’re just going to be wanting to pander to them all the time, and that’s going to harm your business and it’ll harm your confidence.
So, if there’s something in your business that’s… And it could be people pleasing, it might be imposter syndrome, it could be, or a whole range of different things, go and work on that because once you master that mindset, you’ll come into your business and you’ll be a different person and you’ll see things differently. One of the biggest things I think is self-worth and what you’re worth. A lot of us compare each other and oh, I’m not as good as them, and it’s like, well actually, we’re all as worthy as each other. So, working on those things because that will translate into business success because that’s what happened to me. I had to work a lot on my mindset, and once I did, my business just was like, oh wow, look at that now because I’m a different person in there and I’m more confident. Clients want to deal with confident people. They want somebody to lead them. They don’t want to dictate to the person. You’re not an employee.
Kate Toon:
Yes, I love that. So, there’s a couple of things that I want to bring out there. I love the… You’ve been working on your business no matter whether you’re working on your business or in, and I always use the reference to Stephen King that he sits at his desk from nine till five whether he’s doing nothing or if he sits there. There’s always something to do and you’ve no excuses, and I think often the copywriters that fail are the ones who go, “Oh, I don’t have much work on today. So I’m going to go and do some cleaning or do whatever.” I mean, obviously that needs to be done, but if you really want your business to be success, find something to do that helps move your business forward.
The mindset thing, it’s funny. You’re the second person to say that to me today that any issues arise that arise in your business, try to get to the source of them, and often, as you said, it all comes back to am I good enough, am I worthy, am I valued, do I like myself, and unless you get a handle on that, maybe you’ll only get a handle on it for like a week at a time, it’s something that we all have to work on, those issues will continue to happen. So, you need to get to the root of the issue. I love that. Thank you for that, Nerissa. Okay, I wanted to ask you what your fave copywriting tool is before we wrap up. Do you have a FA
Nerissa Bentley:
Hemingway App is amazing, especially when I’m writing patient information, to make sure that it is really user friendly and very good low literacy level because not many Australians who have English as their first language have a high literacy rate, and then on top of that, you’ve got people who don’t have English as a first language with low literacy. So, making sure that that’s really simple and easy to read.
Kate Toon:
What readability age do you aim for when you’re writing?
Nerissa Bentley:
Some of my clients, it’s usually around year 7, 8. Some of them now starting to go to year 6, to grade 6 level.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, same as me. Yeah, that’s what I meant about being a translator. Taking PhD level research materials and turning them into grade 7 patient information that can be read by somebody who doesn’t have English as a first language is a skill. It’s an amazing skill.
Nerissa Bentley:
Yeah.
Kate Toon:
Okay, we’ll finish up with a personal question. You’re off to your desert island. You’re only allowed to take one book. Is it the AHPRA guidelines?
Nerissa Bentley:
No, it is not the AHPRA guidelines. I was hoping it wasn’t just one book because there’s so… I’m an avid reader and it’s like asking me to choose my favourite child, but I did think about it, and I think The Book Thief. I loved that book by Markus Zusak. I think I would take it because it was one of those books, it took me a while to read because I would just read a sentence and then I would just sit and marvel at how beautiful that sentence was, and then I’d get back into the book and there’d be another sentence, like, “Oh wow, how can he write so wonderfully and beautifully and expressively.” So I think that it would last me a long time.
Kate Toon:
It will last you some while. Yeah, it’ll take you a while. I think I’d either take the Encyclopaedia Britannica which I know is a bit of a cheat, but I do love learning about all different things. I’m very curious which I think is an important skill as a copywriter. For me, it would be The Lord of the Rings, A, because it’s big and long, and my dad read it to us when we were little so it’s got family memories, but the same way, you can learn all the songs in it and the names, and it’s quite lyrical in places, and yeah. You can take a line and go and think about it. I really like that. I am Arathorn, son of Aragorn, heir to the throne of Isildur. See, I know it off by heart.
Nerissa Bentley:
You know it, yeah.
Kate Toon:
I do, I don’t need it. No, I love that. That’s beautiful. Look, Nerissa, thank you so much for joining us today. Where can we find out more about you?
Nerissa Bentley:
So, you can visit me on my websites which is melbournehealthwriter.com. I’m on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and occasionally on Twitter.
Kate Toon:
Oh, very occasionally, like me, and obviously you’ll also, Nerissa was one of the first ambassadors in The Clever Copywriting School. She was also member of the year and still wears her tiara with pride.
Nerissa Bentley:
I do. It’s right here on my desk. I don’t know if you can see.
Kate Toon:
She’s got it on her desk. You can’t see this, but she’s putting it on.
Nerissa Bentley:
[inaudible 00:32:54].
Kate Toon:
It’s very small as well. So, I’m sure it gives you a headache, but she wears it anyway because that pain is worth it.
Nerissa Bentley:
Yeah. I do.
Kate Toon:
Well, thank you so much for sharing with us today, Nerissa.
Nerissa Bentley:
My pleasure. It was great to chat. Okay.
Kate Toon:
So, that’s the end of this week’s show. As always, if you want to grab more copywriting tips, then head to The Misfit Entrepreneur group on Facebook. It’s free. We share copy tips, business tips, and lots and lots of silly memes. So, thank you to Nerissa Bentley, and thanks to tftutf from Australia who said in their review, “Another fabulous podcast from Kate Toon. Can’t wait for more episodes. Have loved all her podcasts so far,” and I’m sure this one will be just as brilliant. So, thank you very much for that, tftutf, and thanks to you for listening. If you like the show, please take time to just open your app right now and leave a little review. It would help me so much, even if it’s just the star rating. You’ll get a shout out on the show, and you’ll help others learn about the wonderful world of copywriting, and don’t forget to check out the show notes for this episode at clevercopywritingschool.com, where you can learn more about Nerissa, check out the useful links, and leave a comment about the show. Until next time, happy writing.
