Offering more than just copywriting
“I don’t think offering different skills is anything to be scared of. It can be a superpower that sets you apart from other freelancers, but at the same time, any additional services should be something that you truly enjoy doing.”
– Rachel Amies
We recently ran a poll in the Clever Copywriting Community to see how long people could write for each day.
The average?
Four hours.
Not due to lack of time, but due to running out of creative energy.
So imagine if after you’ve burned the copy candle to a stump, you had a second candle to light.
Imagine if you had a hybrid business that was part copywriting and part something else.
Our guest today has successfully married her yin and yang, combining a purrfect copywriting business with an equally fluffy WordPress business.
She explains the pros (and relatively few cons) of this approach and how it enables her to squeeze more out of her day and give clients a more seamless stress-free experience.
Tune in to learn:
- What Rachel did before she settled on copywriting
- How Rachel thought to combine her web developing and copywriting skills together
- The benefits of utilising different skills
- Rachel’s biggest freelancer fail
- Rachel’s biggest win so far
- Rachel’s top five tools
- Her top tips for anyone wanting to do more than just copywriting
Listen to the podcast
Share the love
If you like what you’re hearing on Clever Copy Chats, support the show by taking a few seconds to leave a rating and/or comment on iTunes or Spotify. Thanks.
And big thanks to Finn’s reviews from Australia for their lovely review: :
“Love the quick tips and copywriter insights
Really excited to have this new podcast on my list. I love the quick tips and hearing from other copywriters. Thanks Kate – the no-fluff, practical style is right up my logical-brain alley.”
Share the meme
About Rachel Amies
Rachel, of Crazy Cat Copy, helps lawyers and service-based businesses create pawsome WordPress websites and write purrfect words to boost business and build connection.
She is an ex-lawyer who originally started her business as a VA but rebranded within 2 years after business owners either asked Rachel who designed her website or would say to other business owners “if you’re stuck with words, go talk to Rachel”.
Fun fact: Eight-year-old Rachel nagged her parents until they let her learn the trumpet. Ten years later, Rachel auditioned and was accepted into a Music Performance degree. This led her to blowing her own trumpet in the university orchestra for Nelson Mandela when he visited New Zealand in 1995.
Connect with Rachel Amies
Useful Resources
- Dubsado CRM
- To the Web Google Title & Meta description pixel length
- Hemingway App
- SEMrush
- Berrycast
- WordPress SEO course
Transcript
Kate Toon:
Hello, my name is Kate Toon, and I’m the Head CopyBeast at The Clever Copywriting School, an online community and teaching hubs, hubs, hub, singular, for all things related to copywriting, and today I’m talking with Rachel Amies. Hello, Rachel.
Rachel Amies:
Hello, Kate.
Kate Toon:
Lovely to see you now, and to hear you. For those of you who don’t know Rachel of Crazy Cat Copy helps lawyers and service based businesses create pawsome, yes, pawsome WordPress websites, and write purrfect words to boost their business and build connection. She is an ex-lawyer who originally started her business as a VA, but rebranded within two years after business owners either asked Rachel who designed her website or would say to other business owners, “If you’re stuck with words, go to Rachel.” Fun fact, I love her fun fact, eight-year-old Rachel nagged her parents until they let her learn the trumpet. 10 years later, Rachel auditioned and was accepted into a musical performance degree. This led to her blowing her own trumpet, love it, in the university orchestra for Nelson Mandela when he visited New Zealand in 1995. What a lovely claim to fame. To have even any connection to Nelson Mandela is pretty cool.
Rachel Amies:
Yes, it was. It’s like one of those bucket list things that you didn’t know it was a bucket list thing until you did.
Kate Toon:
Until you did it. Yes, I love that, and I love that you now have the ability to blow your own trumpet. It’s fantastic, and we’ll do a little bit of that today as well. It sounds like already there’s an evolution from VA to copywriter, but then there’s this also this kind of dichotomy, this Jekyll and Hyde characteristic you have of being both a writer and the WordPress developer which I think is something we want to dig into today, the whole left brain, right brain, creative, practical, blah, blah, blah. But before we do that, take me back a little bit. You were a lawyer. How did you escape, and how did you become a copywriter?
Rachel Amies:
I actually started my law degree after I started music, and during university, I did a lot of admin work to support myself which included working for Reuters New Zealand in their editorial department and also a little stint with the Christchurch Press. Yeah, I’ve practised law for maybe about eight years or so, both in New Zealand, then over here, and yeah, I had some sort of health issues, and I decided to sort of change careers because I didn’t feel like I could a hundred percent dedicate my time to my clients, spent a few years as a public employee doing office management and various admin types roles, and then my last role, I was with an insolvency practise. I was doing office management type work there. They were an accounting firm that specialised in business recovery services and insolvency. Through that whole time, I was writing in one way or another anyway. As a lawyer, I drafted affidavits for clients all the time. That’s sort of where I got my tone of voice sort of training from, and yeah, I’ve written articles for various employers as well.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I mean, this is it, this is the thing that we say. It seems to be very common theme. It’s not like anybody I’ve spoken to on the podcast yet did a copywriting or any related copywriting kind of degree and then started a copywriting business. Everyone’s done other stuff, and writing has been a part of it. But also, you’re very similar to me in the admin stuff because I’ve done a lot of admin. I was a PA, I worked for the NHS doing admin, and to be honest, I will say that even now admin is my happy place. I love a bit of admin. I love a spreadsheet. I love organising things. I could very happily be a VA or an ABM. I would very much enjoy it, but obviously, there’s different boxes that that ticks. I think being an admin person gives you a lot of dopamine because there’s a lot of completion. There’s a lot of clear task, here’s the task, it’s ticked off. Right? Do you feel the same? It’s nice. It’s rewarding.
Rachel Amies:
And also, just the being organised thing, it’s like if you’ve got a long list of to-do things, being able to decide tick it off, tick, tick, yeah, and it’s sort of satifying.
Kate Toon:
Super satisfying.
Rachel Amies:
Definitely.
Kate Toon:
And copywriting can be less satisfying than that because it’s more subjective. There isn’t definite start and end points. I think even when you’ve finished your blog posts, you always feel that there’s probably room for improvement, but you have to stop a certain amount of time because otherwise you’d never make any money. It’s not as black and white, and that can be a bit hard to deal with. I often find myself as a copywriter, or found myself as a copywriter, sneaking back into my admin because that’s my happy place, and it’s easier and less challenging than the creative work. But one thing I think that you are is you’re a bit of an unusual beast in that you aren’t just a copywriter. You’ve evolved, not saying there’s anything wrong with being a VA, but you’ve moved from being a VA to being a copywriter, but you’re also a web developer. Did that start with you building your own site, or did you have web development experience before that?
Rachel Amies:
I had no web development experience before that, although at university, I had a few geeky friends doing computer science degrees. One of them taught me a little bit of HMTL back in the ’90s, but I never used it. But yeah, I sort of fell into that. About six or seven months after I had my own website up, a friend of mine started her own business, and we were having a coffee one day and I gave her my business card. She said, “What? I’m not going to need a VA. What did you give me this for it?” And I was, “Just keep it, just keep it.” About a month later, she messages me saying, “Who did your website?” “I did.” “No, no, no. But no, no. What I mean is who actually did your website?” “Um, I did.” Then it’s like, oh uh. So, she asked me to do hers, and then it just had a follow-on effect there really, and I just sort of learned some more skills while I went as well so that’s, yeah, was great.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, and same again, lots of comparisons here. I built my own website. We built it, and I built the foundations of all my websites. I’ve got about seven now, all in WordPress, and I will say that whether you choose to continue offering that as a service or not, there is so much to be gained from learning to build your own site. We have a WordPress SEO course, I’ll link to it in the show notes, and many copywriters in The Clever Copywriting School built their own basic site. Is it perfect? No, but they managed to get something up quickly for like no money or just the cost of the course, rather than paying four, $5,000 for a site. And then when they’ve evolved a little bit, when they’ve been in business for a while, they’re a bit clearer on their branding, their positioning, then they can pay an expert, but at least they’ve got some kind of presence online.
Kate Toon:
But also, have you found that because you are multidisciplined, understanding how a WordPress website is put together gives you extra insight when you’re writing the copy, doesn’t it, because you’re actually aware of how it’s going to fit into the site?
Rachel Amies:
And also, when I’m writing, just visualising the site of my head as well so I can sort of make some suggestions about using icons, the navigation menu, how that should be set up, having a dropdown menu, and so forth. Just being able to sort of visualise it in my brain while I’m writing, it sort of can be a form of inspiration in terms of what I write as well.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I think it really is. Some copywriters branch out into offering information architecture, helping plan the structure of the site, thinking of that nomenclature in the nav. What did you work with, Divi or Avada, Beaver builder? What kind of themes do you work with in WordPress?
Rachel Amies:
I am a Divi fan.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, me too.
Rachel Amies:
I’ve had a couple of clients who use the Elementor builder. Yeah, it was a good experience just sort of getting that comparison with Divi, but yes, Divi al the way.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, and I think you’re so right, having that understanding of how WordPress is constructed helps you think about layout and also helps you think of the… What you just said there about the right way to present the copy. Sometimes it’s not great to have copy. Sometimes you want to replace it with a logo. Sometimes that copy needs to go into an accordion if it’s an FAQ, for example. You know the elements that the copy’s going to end up being coded in because often as copywriters, we hand our copy over to the developer, and we sometimes kind of feel that the developer massacres it. That big headline that you wanted to be a H1 is now a H3, that copy that you wanted to be bolded isn’t bolded. I would assume that you get a lot of pleasure about writing the copy and then also being the person to put it into the site. It must be quite satisfying.
Rachel Amies:
Yeah, it can be. Yeah, yeah. I find it very satisfying. Yeah, and as you said before, it lets me use both sides of my brain.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, totally.
Rachel Amies:
It’s like a double hit there.
Kate Toon:
And I think the thing, just a tip for any copywriters listening who don’t have control over that website side of things is to maybe consider offering an add-on to your copywriting services to review the copy once it’s in situ because often we hand over and we never get any comeback again, and then we see it on the site and it’s not quite right, but you’ve finished the project so the client’s not going to come back to you because they’ve got no more money or whatever. So, often what I would do is I’d include a cost to do the job amends and proofreading, and then I’d have an additional optional element to say would you like me to add in a couple of hours once the site’s in situ to just check everything ended up in the right place.
Kate Toon:
One of the classics is my beautiful title tags and meta descriptions were often totally ignored. They hadn’t been uploaded or the developer just rewritten them, and even stuff, you’re a student of SEO, you understand SEO, making sure the images are named the way you named them because often then you’ll go to the site and it’s been renamed image 172.4 JPEG. So, you’re lucky because you get that complete control, but some people don’t have that.
Rachel Amies:
Even with clients where they have someone else as a web designer, they’ll often come back to me and say, “It’s up and live now, can you review?” Them knowing that I’ve got that WordPress experience, they know how much value that I can add to that as well.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I mean, that’s a real benefit, be able to think out of the box, suggest things to clients they haven’t considered. Yeah, and the other thing we were talking about before we started the podcast is we did a little sort of chat in the community the other day about how many hours people can write for. We may have eight hours in the day, but the majority of people said that maybe three or four hours is the max that they can write copy for, and the great thing that you therefore have is you can do four hours of that, then you can flip over and do some web development stuff, and it does feel like you’re using a completely… I’m not sure, people say you can’t say left brain and right brain anymore. Apparently that’s not cool, but it does feel like you’re using a different part of your brain, doesn’t it?
Rachel Amies:
Oh definitely, and it’s also just a, yeah, different mindset as well. It’s like, well, which site am I logging into? What am I doing? It’s sometimes it feels a little bit more structured than copywriting, yeah.
Kate Toon:
It’s more logical. It’s more structured. As you said, it’s more ticking off tasks. It’s more linear. I don’t know what it is, but you are right. It’s less… I don’t know. I can’t quite describe it. All I can describe it as is left brain and right brain, and I’m not allowed to, so I won’t. Now, obviously, you’ve been around for a little while now doing this kind of hybrid role. I called you Jekyll and Hyde, but I think that’s a terrible expression. It’s not that you’re evil when you’re one, and yin and yang. I don’t know. What have been some of the big wins you’ve had in your copywriting career? What are your successes so far?
Rachel Amies:
I suppose, when I started my business, my first win was I signed up to use MYOB as my accounting software, I’ve sent since switched to Xero, but they had a competition going, and it was one of those 25 words or less competitions, and I’ve never won any of those type of competitions before. So, I entered it, and the question was around if you had lunch with Janine Allis, what would you ask her. Me being like a month or two in my business, my question was around getting that first client and I was one of the winners. Yeah, and the prize was getting a trip from Sydney to Melbourne pay for-
Kate Toon:
Oh wow. Wow.
Rachel Amies:
…And having lunch with Janine Allis with-
Kate Toon:
No way. How cool.
Rachel Amies:
Yeah, at a really nice, really nice place in Melbourne with some other business owners who’d won the competition as well. So, that was a lot of-
Kate Toon:
Fantastic.
Rachel Amies:
That was a lot of fun.
Kate Toon:
For those of you who don’t know, Janine Allis is the founder of Boost Juice. Yeah, I feel like that’s kind of using your superpower for your own personal gain. I’d love to do a bit more of that because clearly we should be good at that. Yeah, right? But there’s a real art to those 25 words or less things, and I don’t think I have it. I’m not a winner of competitions. I’ve won very little, unfortunately. Okay, that’s the positive story, bit of Boost Juice. What’s your worst fail? What’s been a down point for you in your business because it’s good to share these too, right?
Rachel Amies:
Definitely. Again, this was a few years ago now, but not trusting my gut instinct which at one point led to me taken on a PITA client. So, that’s a pain in the back client, and I was having… I met this person at a networking event, then caught up with her for coffee and I’m sitting there thinking… My gut wasn’t happy. Couldn’t pinpoint why but I didn’t want to… Yeah, it felt wrong. But being the new business person, I need to bring in the money, need the experience, and I took her on. The project just took a lot longer than it should have done, definitely a learning experience, and not not one that I’ve repeated that often, thankfully.
Kate Toon:
That gut instinct, we all feel it, but at first, we doubt it. We doubt ourselves. We actually talked about this on the episode with Gary Cooper, and Gary’s about 432, he’s so old. He’ll love me for saying that. But experience teaches you over and over again that that icky feeling that you get is something to be considered. Sometimes it’s fear, and you need to push it back, but sometimes it’s generally does not feel right, and we were just talking about that. We just did a copy loving, and we were talking about when you get clients and they won’t follow your processes, or they cancel the briefing meeting two or three times, or they’re funny about sending the first payment, and you’re like, “Oh, it’s fine,” because you’re like, “They must be a good person. People are good, right? People are good. It’s all going to be fine.” And you’re compensating and going, “That’s okay. I’ll fill in the brief. That’s okay. I’ll start the job before you’ve paid me.” And it never turns out well because those are red flags and we need to acknowledge them, right?
Rachel Amies:
Definitely, and I think it’s sort of that people pleaser streak in us too. We want to do a good job, we want to make the client happy, but sometimes you can’t.
Kate Toon:
You definitely can’t, no, and you bend over backwards to keep the client happy. In the end, the client usually isn’t happy because that kind of client will probably never be happy. They’re built not to be happy. But it’s hard to recognise that, and I think that comes with time. And so, look, I’m guessing you are a bit of a geek. I’m a bit of a geek. Let’s geek out on tools because obviously you’re not just going to be using copywriting tools. I’m sure you use other tools as well. What are your top five? Usually I give people one tool, but I’m going to give you five. What are your top five?
Rachel Amies:
My first one would be Dubsado which is a customer relationship management tool. It lets me keep all of my leads and clients all in one place, and it allows me to send out proposals that look pretty, electronically sign their agreements and automate some things. That’s probably my favourite because that just makes my client management a lot easier. For my copywriting, I used the Hemingway App. You can use it free on the internet browser, but I actually paid the $19 or whatever it is to get the desktop app.
Kate Toon:
It’s a bargain. It’s a bargain. Yeah, I like that too. I like that more than Grammarly. I find Grammarly really intrusive and annoying. It’s popping up all the time. It annoys me, and I like the simplicity of Hemingway App to be honest. So, yeah, I like that too.
Rachel Amies:
And then for my page titles and meta descriptions, I use this tool, it’s by ToTheWeb and they’ve got this Google and meta description tool, and you can either enter a link to check a page and it’ll tell you if there’s too many pixels, or you can actually sort of draught it in there as well, and I’ll use that, test out my titles and meta descriptions in there before particularly my copy deck. I also use Semrush. That’s for my SEO key word research. That’s also a favourite, and Berrycast which is a shared screen video recording tool. I do a lot of videos for my leads and clients, and it makes it easy to record things and then share the link with them.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, and often, we talk about this with copy, it’s great to present your copy with a video, and definitely a website. Just dumping someone on your website and say, “I’ve finished it,” you want to be able to take them through and show them how things work and why you’ve done what you’ve done. And then obviously you do training as well. You do WordPress training and help people. If they don’t want to use your maintenance packages, you actually are very positive about giving them the skills to manage the site themselves which I think is really important because a lot of WordPress developers are kind of like, “No, you can’t have admin access to your own sites,” which is obviously a bit of a weird way to behave.
Kate Toon:
What would the tip be… Because it’s a question that comes up a lot, right, in the community. We see it a lot, oh, I’ve got a client, I’ve written the copy for them, and now they’re asking me if I’ll pop it into their active campaign, or now they’re asking me if I can help design their flyer, or now they’re asking me if I can do their SEO or their WordPress. What would you say to somebody that’s thinking, “Should I do that or am I diversifying too much? Should I stick to my own lane?” Somebody wanting to do more than just copywriting, what would you say to them?
Rachel Amies:
I don’t think it’s anything to be scared of. I think that can be a superpower that sets you apart from other freelancers, but at the same time, any additional services should be something that you enjoy doing as well. If you don’t enjoy it, then why offer it? I think, yeah, it’s great if the services compliment each other. WordPress and copywriting go well. Copywriting and say setting up an email marketing platform, that would go well. Yes, I think it helps if the two services compliment each other.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I agree, and I think from a client perspective, you’re a unicorn, and for me to have to deal with one less supplier is huge, right? I’ve got one person who can not only do my copy, they can build the website as well. That just saves me another set of invoices, proposals, another person to deal with, and I love your point about you have to enjoy it. You have to enjoy that flip, and I also think that you kind of in a way can nearly double your time because no one can write all day and you get to do other stuff. One thing I wanted to ask you, and I hope this is not too personal, I’m assuming you charged the same rates, regardless of whether you’re copywriting or web development because you’re the same person. Is that right?
Rachel Amies:
Yes, definitely. Yeah.
Kate Toon:
I think that’s really important to think about. If you’re going to be a VA and a whatever, or a proofreader and a copywriter or whatever and a what, it’s the same rate because you are the same person being you, right. Some people have different rates for different jobs, and I’m like, “Why? It’s not like eight different people are doing this. You’re the same person.” You might just be a copywriter and a proofreader, and you’re going to be a super fast proofreader because that’s all you’re doing. Okay. The next question I would have is what would you say to people who say, “Oh, well, you can’t be good at everything. You can’t be good at this and that so you must be mediocre at both.” Is that something that anyone has ever said to you, or do you think it’s a perception in the market, or has it not really come up?
Rachel Amies:
I haven’t had that come up yet, fingers crossed, but I think it’s just being able to demonstrate your worth. There are people who want to only deal with one person, and that’s why I just, I keep a portfolio of both my WordPress work and my copywriting work and say, “Well, this is the work I’ve done. Happy clients, these are happy clients who’ve used me for both copywriting and WordPress work, a lot of them come back so there must be something there.”
Kate Toon:
I must be good. No, I like that. People have often said that to me, I can’t be good at both things because in my career I was mostly a project manager in Ogilvy, I was a producer and I managed the team and I managed the budgets and the timeline, and then I moved into copywriting, and the two different skill sets have served me very well, really, really well. I do think I’m left brain and right brain, and I enjoy being able to switch from one to the other. It gives me relief to be able to go, “I’ve done my techy stuff, right? Now I can just sit and lavish in my writing,” or vice versa. But I’m going to give you a Sophie’s choice now, Rachel. You have to choose. You had to choose between a copywriter or being a WordPress developer. Which would you choose, and would it be a difficult choice?
Rachel Amies:
Yes, it would probably be a slightly difficult choice, but I would probably lean towards the copywriting side. I mean, I’ve was brought up playing music, my trumpet playing. I love having that creativity, and if I wanted to geek out on WordPress I’ll just play with my own site.
Kate Toon:
That’s it, that’s it. Now, I don’t have any clients, but I’m able to still tick those two different boxes by I write a lot from my own business, I do a lot of social media, but then also, I have a lot behind the scenes stuff, little websites to fix, and I have a team who can do it. I just made some changes to our Digital Masterchef’s membership page, and I was like, “I know that I should brief this to our WordPress person, but it’s going to take so long,” because it was loads of little changes here, there, everywhere. “I’m just going to do it myself,” and god, I loved it. I loved it. It gave me a bit of a break from constantly having to write. Okay, we’re going to finish up with a tip, a tip to maybe newbie copywriters, starting out. If you were to talk to Rachel way back when, when she’d left the horrors of the law and the… What was it? Insolvency? Oh my goodness, ugh, and you’re just starting your business, what’s one thing you wish you’d known then that you know now?
Rachel Amies:
Trust your gut, and have confidence in your skills, and your skills are what people will pay for.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I think that’s a great one, and the trust your gut seems to come back up again and again in this podcast, and confidence. You’ve been doing this for a little while now. You’ve been a member of the community for how many years. It feels like a while, but even that-
Rachel Amies:
About two and a half years, I think, yeah.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, but even in that time, I’ve seen your confidence grow. You’ve got more into your own positioning, more into your own voice, more into this kind of dual nature of your business with no qualms whatsoever, no apologies. I’m both, and I’m fine with that. I think confidence is such a huge thing. I wish we could sell that in The Cover Copywriting School shop. It would be an amazing thing to be able to give to everybody. So, listen, Rachel, where can we find out more about you?
Rachel Amies:
So, obviously on my website, crazycatcopy.com.au, and on my socials as well.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, lots of fun to follow Rachel on Instagram. I am really enjoying your content there. Well, look, Rachel, thank you very much for your time today. You are not Jekyll and Hyde. You may be yin and yang. We’re not sure about left rain and right brain, but anyway, it’s a beautiful union, and thank you for sharing it with us today.
Rachel Amies:
Thank you for having me.
Kate Toon:
So, that’s the end of this week’s show. If you want to grab more tips, head to The Clever Copywriting School website where you can sign up to our free pricing guide which teaches you how to charge for your copy, whether you’re in Australia, the UK, or America, and secret tip, you’ll also get a free copy of our client phone script, exactly what to say when the client calls you and you have no idea how to answer all their difficult questions.
Kate Toon:
Anyway, thank you to Rachel Amies for her interview, and also thank you to Finn’s reviews from Australia for their lovely review, “Love the quick tips and the copywriter insights. I’m really excited to have this new podcast on my list. I love the quick tips and hearing from other copywriters. Thanks, Kate. No fluff, practical style is right up my logical brain alley.” And thank you to you for listening as always. This is the diurnal, no that’s not, eternal, continual request for a review or rating. If you’re listening to this pod, stop what you’re doing, look at your app, and maybe just write a short review. I’d be very grateful. You can check out the show notes for this episode at the covercopywritingschool.com. You’ll also find links to all those amazing tools that Rachel mentions. I recommend you checking them out. That’s it for this time, and until next podcast, happy writing.
