“Once you start to feel a little bit uncomfortable, that’s a sign of growth – keep going. You can’t stop just because you’ve got the 10 clients under your belt – those 10 could just be taken away from you tomorrow. So treat your business like your baby. You’ve got to be there every day.”
– Vishma Mistry
So I’ve decided to launch a new stream to the Clever Copy Chats pod.
We have Tips and Chats and 101 episodes, and now I’m adding newbies.
These are chats with people who are brand new to copywriting. I want to chat about their challenges, their fears and what’s holding them back.
I want to dig into their goals and ambitions.
And I want to hopefully give them a little useful advice on the podcast.
Because it’s all very well hearing from established copywriters, with a client list as long as their thigh, processes up the wazoo and their pricing en point.
But perhaps you, like today’s guest, are just starting and need a firm pat on the bottom or a shoulder to weep on.
Well, that’s what the newbie episodes are all about.
Tune in to learn:
- Vishma’s career path up to now
- Why Vishma took the leap and chose copywriting
- The biggest challenges Vishma has faced so far, and how she overcame them
- Positives to launching her new career
- Vishma’s top tip for new copywriters
Listen to the podcast
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If you like what you’re hearing on Clever Copy Chats, support the show by taking a few seconds to leave a rating and/or comment on iTunes or Spotify. Thanks.
And big thanks to KirstyAnna333 from Australia for their lovely review:
“Copywriting podcasts can be a little dry, but this one is different.
From start to finish, you’ll find yourself listening eagerly as Kate discusses topics covering everything from neurodiversity to balancing family and work commitments to taming your (critical) inner voice.
I’ve never felt so seen by an auditory medium!”
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About Vishma Mistry
Vishma was born and brought up in the UK. She grew up surrounded by literary history from Shakespeare to the Bronte sisters. You could say her love for words began from here and the roots have only grown stronger with time.
Having been a marketing professional for over a decade, she now brings the marketing know-how to help businesses tell their story through creative copywriting.
Fun fact: Vishma aspired to work in the movies once upon a time and not many people know Vishma has a BTEC in media and film through which she learned a lot about script writing, storyboarding and the ins and outs of video production.
Connect with Vishma Mistry
Useful Resources
- Free webinar: Your first month as a copywriter
- Free rates guide
- The Clever Copywriting School Membership
Transcript
Kate Toon:
So I’ve decided to launch a new stream to the Clever Copy Chats pod. We have tips and chats and 101 episodes and now I’m introducing Newbies. These are chats with people who are fairly new to copywriting. I want to chat about their challenges, their fears and what, if anything is holding them back. I want to dig into their goals and ambitions, and I want to hopefully give them a little useful advice on the podcast, because it’s all very well and good hearing from established copywriters with a client list as long as their thigh, processes up the Wazo and their pricing on points. But perhaps you, like today’s guest, are just starting out and need a firm pat on the bottom or a shoulder to weep on. Well, that’s what these Newbie episodes are all about. Hello, my name is Kate Toon and I’m the head copy beast of the Clever Copywriting School and online community and teaching hub for all things related to copywriting and today I’m talking to Vishma Mistry. Hello Vishma.
Vishma Mistry:
Hi.
Kate Toon:
It’s very exciting. I’m going to tell everybody who you are. So let me read out your bio. Vishma was born and brought up in the UK. Booyah. UK massive. She grew up surrounded by literary history from Shakespeare to the Bonsai sisters. You could say her love of words began from here, and the roots have only grown stronger with time. Having been a marketing professional for over a decade, she now brings the marketing know-how to help businesses tell their story through creative copywriting.
Kate Toon:
Fun fact, Vishma aspired to work in the movies once upon a time and not many people know Vishma has a BTEC in media and film through which she learned a lot about script writing, story boating and the ins and outs of video production. So Vishma, what did you want to be in the movies? Did you want to be a star or did you want to be a producer or what was your thing going to be?
Vishma Mistry:
I think more from the storytelling side of perspective, creating exciting new stories that people enjoy.
Kate Toon:
I would love to do that. Yeah. I would love that too. I’ve made a couple of short films, which I really enjoyed. I was also an extra in a movie. I jumped over a hedge in… I can’t even remember the name of the movie. We were there 12 hours through the night at Pinewood studios just to jump over a hedge. That was it.
Vishma Mistry:
Yeah. I had a good experience. I went to the film city in Deli and part of the course that I did, and we had an interesting sort of 24 hour shoot that went on and it was literally shooting one part of a song that went on for 24 hours and you saw the fact that they just… It involved a lot of different camera work so-
Kate Toon:
This is the thing isn’t it Vishma. It all looks very good on the screen, but that one minute of screen time is like two days. I’ve been a runner or whatever you call it on a few film sets. It’s really boring. It’s shockingly boring and a lot of sitting around, which brings us nicely onto copywriting, which can be shockingly boring and involves a little bit of sitting around. So I’ve described these episodes as newbie episodes, but one of the things that I always find funny about new copywriters is, it’s not like they were born out of an egg yesterday, as mentioned in your bio. You’ve spent many years as a marketing professional. So you’re not really a newbie, but let’s play along with the new theme. Tell us a little bit about how you started and what your career path was, up till now.
Vishma Mistry:
Yeah. So look, initially, I had my MBA honours in international marketing business that led me into my marketing career. And whilst in the UK, worked for likes of 3M and then that was a short term, like six months and then after that, we moved to Australia. So I worked in a few companies and I worked with an IVF and facility company for about almost eight years before moving forward at the end of 2020 and in the meantime I did a bit of freelance journalism. And then, like I said, after I resigned from my job, I ended up copywriting. I mean, look, I think that the copywriting thing started maybe earlier in my marketing career because it was a constant. And then the thought occurred to me at, I think June 2020 and I really took the leap, I think February 2021.
Kate Toon:
That’s awesome. And then that’s true. As a marketeer, often you don’t have a copywriting resource. You are the copywriting resource. So you’re writing an awful lot of materials, but you maybe just don’t class it as being a copywriter. They’re like, “Oh God, someone’s got to write something. So I’ll do it.” But you really are being a copywriter.
Vishma Mistry:
Exactly.
Kate Toon:
So what made you take that leap? So you’ve thought about it for a bit. You resigned for your job at the IV place. You’ve been doing a bit of freelance work on the side. What made you decide, okay, this is it, I’m going to go all in on the copywriting.
Vishma Mistry:
Yeah. So look, I think initially the click happened with the fact that I was always a go-to, and words came naturally to me from a very young age. I was always a go-to for proofreading, writing something, whatever. And like I said, that was something that was consistent in my marketing career. I was writing these books and so on. So that June, it came to me and I was like, “Oh okay, if I’m doing all of this at work, I could probably do this as a side hustle.” And that’s when I first came across the copyright school and I was like, “Oh okay, this thing actually exists. I didn’t know that it was even a term at that point.”
Vishma Mistry:
And then I guess I was, after I resigned from my job, I was looking for another job, but I was like as a filler to get some income in. I thought let’s give this a go. Let’s see what happens, where it takes me and I guess more time in the day to pitch. So that’s where it all began and I thought, “Oh this is nice. I’m actually enjoying this.” When you are in a marketing space and you’re doing it, whilst you’re enjoying it, you are also doing all of the marketing side of stuff. So you’re not in that clear mind space of where your passion truly lies. Like that spark doesn’t happen. And then I saw that and I was like, “Well, I’m going to give this a go, see how it goes and we’ll go from there.” And the rest is history. So I guess-
Kate Toon:
I love that. So often when copy coaches give advice, they’re like, “Oh, make sure you have three months of income lined up, make sure you have some clients already on your books.” And the thing is, in truth is never a good time to start a Copywriting business. Just like there’s never a good time to have a child. You can be as prepared as you think you’re going to be, but then the child comes along and it’s nothing like you thought it was going to be and they go, you just have to take that leap and then also manage your expectations that obviously the first couple of months, people aren’t going to be hammering on your door demanding copy. It takes a while to build up that momentum.
Kate Toon:
And I like the fact that you called it a side hustle. So at first you think, I’m going to get a job. I’m going to do this as a side hustle. And lots of members of the Clever Copywriting School do that. But they get this weird failure to launch because, unless you go all in, I’m not sure whether you go all in. Do you know what I mean by that?
Vishma Mistry:
Yeah. It doesn’t happen and I think I found that initially. So when I had the initial idea, I went full – I was like, my marketing firm was like, put a website up, get social media happening, something will happen. But then because I was in marketing in my day job and trying to pitch when I came home, people aren’t in that mindset of yeah, that’s bringing that business even if they are looking for a copywriter and the first six months, June to December, I didn’t see anything. And it was only when I went all in was when I started seeing the results. I mean, it was slow. Don’t get me wrong. I mean you’re pitching 100 and maybe getting one, but one’s a win, and you have to be fully dedicated. I mean yeah, there might be this small percentage that are very lucky that can do it in the side hustle and get away with it.
Kate Toon:
Yeah. It’s challenging because I think started by that too. I had a job in advertising and I started to do a few little freelance jobs on the side, and obviously it’s that terrifying moment where you go, “Am I willing to give up this regular certain income for this risk?” But is the risk going to be worth it. And my approach in those early days was always look, I can always go back. I can always go back and get a job in marketing. I can always go back and do that. I have those skills. If worst comes to worst, I could even go back to doing what I did years ago and be like a VA or, you know worst comes to worst, it’s quite fun being a VA.
Kate Toon:
But it’s like I have the skills. I’ll always have that full back on. But if not now, when? And that’s it. Now I love the fact that you said that your marketing brain clicked in and you started to set yourself up for success with a website and all of that. Again, I think a lot of newbie copywriters don’t do that. They’re like, “Okay, I’m a copywriter,” long pause. This is not an edit poll. There’s literally a long pause. And it’s like, “Okay, well great. Now you need to tell everybody, now you need a website. Now you need to get your social media set up. Now you need to send some emails.” So you did all of that when you started out?
Vishma Mistry:
Yes. That was my first protocol. And I think, like I said, as a market, you go straight into people want proof that you’ve done the work. So it’s showing that from some area, even if it was from my freelance journalism portfolios, putting that up and going this is part of my portfolio this is what I have done. And a lot of it does come through I guess people do pick up on the conversations that you have with them as well. They’re not oblivious to that. They can tell when you’re just burning sake of it and you’re kind yeah, you are the real deal.
Kate Toon:
You need that proof and I think you can wing it for a bit. I got a lot of jobs when I started on Gumtree, we had Gary on the podcast talking about how successfully he’s been on Upwork. Of course, you can do that but there’s a lot to be said for having a solid hub, a really good website that shows who you are, what you do, who you do it for, some proof and some samples. I’m going off the path a little bit, but a couple of questions around here. One of the things that holds people back when they start is they’re like, I have no experience and I have no samples.
Kate Toon:
And I think this is my point from the beginning. It’s not like you were born yesterday. You do have samples. You do have testimonials. They’re just not for you as a copywriter. So one thing I did when I just started was I cut and pasted little snippets of performance reviews and turned them into testimonials and said in my role as something at IVF clinic or whatever in a couple of samples. This sample is from my role as a marketing person. It doesn’t matter. Do you know what I mean? Did you do that too?
Vishma Mistry:
Absolutely. So what I did was I reached out to a couple of colleagues that I worked with in the earlier company, because they’ve seen my work. They’ve seen the websites that I’ve created. They’ve seen the copyright that I’ve done for those websites. So they were able to vouch for that. And also just from a working perspective, like a working relationship perspective and touch what I was very lucky that there were fair few that were really willing to do that. And then also reaching out to people that you’ve worked with that aren’t in the organisation. So I personally reached out to a printer that I had a really good relationship with. Bear in mind, I never met him in person. We only had phone conversations or email conversations, but he was so happy to just give me a testimonial. There was a digital agency that I worked with and the director there, he was like yeah, absolutely.
Kate Toon:
That’s it. And the thing is, people think that every testimonial needs to be about your writing, but no. It needs to be about who you are, how you manage projects, what your personalities like, that you’re easy going, that you are communicative. That’s actually as important as she’s a good writer. Because there’s lots of good writers who are horrendous to work with. So I love that you were brave enough to do that. And that’s some great ideas for newbies listening, your previous employer, your previous colleagues who can talk to how easy you are to work with and then suppliers and other people you’ve worked with in whatever capacity. And as long as you’re transparent. Do you know what I mean? You’re not claiming that every single one of these is a client you’ve had as a copywriter. It’s absolutely fine. And the other thing I think is, you don’t need 67 testimonials and 802 samples. You need a couple, and a couple of samples and then over time, if you want to, you can swap those out with real client ones or just keep adding. I just kept adding new ones.
Vishma Mistry:
I keep adding. And I think if you’re trying to run a business as a writer and especially when you go out on your own as a copywriter, I mean you’re running a business at the end of the day. So that business mindset that you need to go with and I think in business, people want relationships. That is what they value the most. And if you can reflect that even from a testimonial with an ex colleague or somebody else that you have worked with, it’s worth it’s weight in gold.
Kate Toon:
Exactly. It’s all about relationships. We say this a lot in the Clever Copywriting School, it’s about, 50% being a good writer and 50% being good at running a business and managing clients, because you have to bring the work in. You have to keep those relationships and hopefully have people coming back. So look, I segued a bit there, but since you’ve decided to become a copywriter and obviously you made the very smart move of joining the Clever Copywriting community, what’s happened since then, since you took that leap of faith?
Vishma Mistry:
So yeah. No, look, I might be one of the lucky ones and I think the universe had it planned for me because I wasn’t really getting anywhere with job applications in the end. It was yeah, it’s been good. It’s been a steady growth, which has been great. And the Clever Copywriting School has definitely been one of my biggest sources for getting that happening. The community is been great, just asking the questions, because sometimes you do have certain clients that you’re dealing with or you are questioning your pricing or you’re questioning your terms and conditions or, and clauses that you need to put in and so on.
Vishma Mistry:
Yeah, it’s been a great support system and it’s really helped you go step by step up. Look, I think any advice I have for a newbie would be take it slow, it’s not going to happen overnight. You will feel like there’s lulls where you’re like, okay, what’s the next step? Which way am I heading? But it’s just saying knocking that imposter syndrome aside and moving forward, even if it’s just adding a blog post on your website.
Kate Toon:
That’s it. I mean-
Vishma Mistry:
A great stop.
Kate Toon:
I think there’s a big perception problem with all online businesses, with all businesses at the moment, that success comes quickly. And a lot of being a good copywriter is that patience and persistence. That’s showing up at your desk even if you have no client work to do and doing some marketing, writing a blog post, doing a guest post. But one thing you mentioned, which I was interested in your intro, was that you pitched a lot. So you actually actively went out and tried to find work. Tell me about that. What did that involve?
Vishma Mistry:
So initially a lot of phone calls, a lot. And there’d be days where just the door shut on your face and you’d get nothing. And there were days that I’d win couple coming through and you feel good. You feel high. But it’s not letting that get you down. When you do have the love, it is a lot of pitching you do have to put yourself out there. So even when I go to networking events, so it’s not just relying on phone calls, it’s go to the networking events. It’s sign up to things like business chicks. You’ll find people there that you might be able to have communication with.
Vishma Mistry:
I think it’s PR again, but that marketing mind coming in, it’s like, well, PR is really essential. So I’ve managed to do a lot of that on my own so far. And then I think going from there, you get your referral clients. Once clients work with you and they like the work that you do. It’s also not being hesitant to share the work that you do for others on social media. A lot of my clients, you could say it’s indirect pitching. I mean, I might not be picking up the phone, but when I am posting something that I have done on LinkedIn for a client or sharing their work, essentially it’s an indirect pitch that others will see and they will probably reach out and I’ve luckily yeah, I’ve had a few clients through LinkedIn.
Kate Toon:
Oh, I love that. I’m writing that down, indirect pitch. I think that might be a Mistry catch phrase. There’s a couple of things I want to pull out from that. So you mentioned just calling who… I mean that will put the fear of God into most people. You literally ringing up businesses, agencies, where everyone is saying, “Hi, I’m a copywriter. Who are you calling?” How did you generate your call list?
Vishma Mistry:
Yeah. So look, a lot of them, the copyright school board, I just pick up the phone and I’d be like, I can do this. And I would just call. And look, if you know me, I’m quite a reserved person so that doesn’t come very easily to me although now I think almost two years and you go, okay, “I’ll just answer the phone.” And you do have that hesitation moment at times, but you just learn what works for one client doesn’t work for another.
Vishma Mistry:
So a lot of my pitch calls were definitely from the copywriting school board. The others were going through seek, finding companies and rather than just clicking apply, it’s just go right. I can find this company on Google, let me call the HR department and see if they can put me through to who’s in charge of that job application and then you just feel from there.
Kate Toon:
I love it.
Vishma Mistry:
So it’s trying anything and everything, really and seeing what works.
Kate Toon:
And as you mentioned, so job board is obviously fab, sorry, people that’s only available to members, but looking at other jobs that are coming up, taking the time to circumvent that process a little bit and finding someone you can actually talk to. Another thing I recommend is calling agencies and just saying, “Hey, could I send in some information about me just in case you ever need a copywriter? I know you might not need one now.” I did a lot of just contacting people on LinkedIn and going, “Hey, just letting you know I’m a copywriter. I do this. I saw your business. I like this and this about it. If you ever need anybody, I just wanted to make contact.” That was instead of just doing those awful, I don’t know what they call them on LinkedIn, friend requests and having a generic script, I would really try and tailor it.
Kate Toon:
And as you said, maybe I’d just try and commit to doing five of those a week. And over the year that added up and the hit rate wasn’t 100% by any means. But once in a while, someone picked it up and as you said then there became a retainer or an ongoing client. Another thing you mentioned is joining communities. So we’re not going to list off millions of communities, but obviously you joined the Clever Copywriting community and there is work to be found there working for other copywriters as a sub, but you mentioned other business communities. I think that’s a great thing to do as well in your local community and online and becoming known in that community as the copywriter, and helping other members of the crew without any expectation and putting little copy tips in. Now, obviously if you go and join a massive community, it’s going to be harder to get noticed. So I find joining smaller communities, local communities can really help raise your profile. Did that work for you?
Vishma Mistry:
Yes, absolutely. Even if it’s just going to a local networking event and it might be really small scale, but you’ll really bring your name out there and people are interested. There’s other businesses when you go to certain business networking events and they’re selling their own business, but at the same time, you approach them and they’ll be like, “Oh, I never even knew that, that existed.”
Kate Toon:
Yeah. People don’t know. This is it. People don’t know that copywriting is a thing. Also, when we refer to ourselves as copywriters, people are like, “I don’t know what that is. You’re a lawyer.” So I often recommend saying I’m a business writer or I help people get found online or I help people raise their profile, or the one that works the best for me is, “Oh, I help people get more customers.” And people go, “Oh really? How’d you do that?”
Kate Toon:
So I focus on the benefit, not on the practical. I’m a copywriter. Okay, well, someone’s going to take their mini kish and walk to the other side of the networking event as soon as you say that. But if you say I help people get found on Google, or I help people find more customers or connect with their customers, that starts a conversation. So I think about that.
Vishma Mistry:
Absolutely.
Kate Toon:
Yeah. Love it. So you’ve talked about some of the challenges you had when you started which was the pitching. To me, you said maybe you suffer from a bit of imposter syndrome, but you come across as super confident. I have to say. So I love it. Is there anything, I mean, so you’re about a year or so in, Cleverly launched up couple years in?
Vishma Mistry:
Almost couple of years. Yeah. Full, I would say it started February 21 2021 and yeah.
Kate Toon:
Would you recommend launching your business during a global pandemic? Is that…
Vishma Mistry:
Like you said earlier, there’s never a good time.
Kate Toon:
No. True.
Vishma Mistry:
And you never know what’s going to happen. I mean, for me it was like yeah, in the middle, I guess we were just coming out of COVID and practise from a job. Penniless, no idea where I’m going to go. But you’ve got to have faith in yourself as well. I think it takes a lot of faith in yourself and-
Kate Toon:
It’s not for everybody. It’s not for everybody starting your own business. You have to have a bit of faith in yourself. You have to be able to motivate yourself on the dark days and be persistent like you have been and keep trying even in the face of failure. And the line I love is from that Rudyard Kipling poem which is something like, treat failure and success both the same. That’s a terrible paraphrasing, but I think it’s so true even on… Don’t get too crazy, only good days, because it’s going to be a bad day coming up and that’s just how it goes.
Vishma Mistry:
Absolutely.
Kate Toon:
Freelance life. So is there anything that you are struggling with now, two years in?
Vishma Mistry:
Yeah. Well I guess one of the things is making the number of pictures that I used to, because I’m so busy, which I’m not complaining about. I have my regular stream of clients now and that’s awesome and I’m super busy. But I guess once your business starts to grow, where you do struggle is you get so busy doing things for everyone else, you stop doing things for yourself. So it’s me trying to launch my own podcast or put a blog on my website, but you do. Yeah.
Vishma Mistry:
I think at the moment, that’s probably one of my struggles at the moment, but I do try to find time on a Friday in the afternoon when everyone, the businesses are quiet, no one’s going to respond to emails and it’s just finding what works when. So I think in terms of pitching now, I’ve carved out an hour in the morning and gone every morning. Just have a look what’s out there, do what you can and then get onto the work that needs to be done for the day and then Friday afternoon, see if you can do a little bit, even if it’s just one social media post for your brand, do it.
Kate Toon:
Oh Vishma, you are… I am just like preach. I love this. A big lick that frog. I don’t want to eat the whole frog, but I will lick the frog first thing and spend that first hour of the day doing something that makes me money or doing something that’s going to extend my pipeline, as you said. So a pitch, looking for jobs, little social media posts, and then I’m the same as you. I love that Friday afternoon, just going okay, you can’t work at that high frequency all week, Friday afternoon, pop a bit of music on, make some graphics in canvas, set myself up for the following week.
Kate Toon:
And I often say that a good balance is about 10 as a working copywriter with clients, you should be spending about 10% of your available working time on pitching, marketing, putting yourself out there. And you must do that every week. And the copywriters that succeed are the ones who consistently do that, not just go, “Oh, everything’s great.” Because then in two months time, you two retainer clients bugger off, you get sick. And you’re like, “Wow, I now have to start up my pipeline from dead, from a hill start rather than a nice rolling start.” Yeah.
Vishma Mistry:
Absolutely. And there’s a phrase that I heard which was, once you start to feel a little bit uncomfortable, that’s a sign of growth, and keep going and you’re right. You can’t stop just because you’ve got the 10 clients under your belt and that all that 10 could just be taken away from you tomorrow. So it’s treating and you know, your business is your baby. You’ve got to be there every day.
Kate Toon:
Got to keep feeding it. You can’t just leave it in its coch. Random, okay. Let’s talk about, I mean, look, it sounds positive, obviously we know there’s negatives, there’s ups and downs. You’ve ridden the rollercoaster for the last couple of years, but what have been some of the positives? What’s been some of the joys of this new copywriting career you’ve created for yourself?
Vishma Mistry:
One that comes to mind at present is making it to the finals of entrepreneur of the year in category.
Kate Toon:
Yay.
Vishma Mistry:
So young entrepreneur of the year, I should say. Yeah. That’s quite exciting to be acknowledged for that. I think competing against a lot of amazing businesses and to even make it to the finals I think it’s a big win. So it’s telling me I’m doing something right, I guess. So yeah, reaching the finals of that. I think even just the clients noticing the work that I’m doing and other businesses noticing the work, sorry that I’ve been doing and then wanting to work with me, I think that’s rewarding in itself. All I’m doing is maybe sharing something on Instagram, the work that I’ve done and for others to go, that’s really good. I want that.
Kate Toon:
There’s nothing better. And also your captain of your own ship now, I’m guessing that Monday morning doesn’t hold quite the same horror that it used to?
Vishma Mistry:
No. Absolutely not. I don’t have the Sunday evening lulls or I wake up when I’m ready and I obviously have a particular schedule in place. So I treat my business like a full on working day. But I started right and I think it’s important to get yourself in the right head space before you start working so that involves a bit of exercise in the morning, eating the right breakfast and then getting yourself into a routine. And I guess yeah, when you are running your own ship and you’re by yourself, you could probably end up going out. I’ll just wake up late. I’ll just work whenever, but that’s not where growth lies. I guess if you’re really serious about something, you’ve got to go in and that’s what I do. I just go in every morning, work till 5:00 and then husband’s home and it’s like family time and you have to set your boundaries. Be aware you have to set your boundaries.
Kate Toon:
Yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, you’re also saving hours each day, not having to commute and those hours can go to your health and wellbeing. They can go towards exercise. They can go towards making yourself a lunch and doing all of that so important. And I agree with you. I mean, I think you can be a bit more free and easy and say, “Oh, I’m just going to take the morning up.” But as long as you understand the consequence of that, you can do whatever the hell you want. But as you sound very much like me, when I started out, I was like, I’m going to stick to my 9:00 to 5:00. I’m going to take a little break at lunch, but I’m going to sit at my desk. And if I’m not working for clients, I’m going to work for me and improve my processes. I’m going to work on my website.
Kate Toon:
I treated it like a job, not like a hobby. Not like a side hustle, like a job. And I think that served me really well in those that discipline, I must admit my boundaries went, oh a stray sometimes, because you’re like, get into that thing of I must please the client, I must say yes to every job, because what if it’s the last job, but then as your confidence in prayers, you’re like, “It won’t be the last job.” But I love what you said about no Sunday blues. And I guess I don’t think there’s anything more, I don’t know, more positive than someone seeing work you’ve done and saying, “That’s really good, can you do that for me?” I mean, seriously, it’s like, we get to do this. This is our job. It’s pretty cool.
Vishma Mistry:
And I think it’s rewarding. I mean, one of the highlights that I guess of the client of mine and it’s early days with them still, but a professor from Yale University reaching out and go, “I love your work and we’ve got a project in mind. Can you work with us?” And to me that was like, “Yes.”
Kate Toon:
Oh my goodness.
Vishma Mistry:
I was not going to say no. I don’t care how big or small it is.
Kate Toon:
I’m going to give you a tip right now, okay. This is an important tip. Go and create a Google Doc and right now, and every time one of these good things happens, I want you to put the date in and what happened. So you’ve mentioned the entrepreneur award. You’ve mentioned the Yale award, because let me tell you, in five years time, you’ll forget a lot of these things and you won’t get… I actually made a little timeline for my Kate Toon website of cool things I’d done.
Kate Toon:
And it was really hard to put together because I’d forgotten a lot of this stuff. But it’s important that you… I love to have a folder on my desktop of nice comments. I screen grab them and I put them in and when I’m having a bad day I look at them. But that timeline of what happened, I also wanted to say, well done on the award because yes, it’s great to be a finalist, but you know what happened to make you a finalist, you’re blooming entered. That’s what happened. That’s an important step. So make a timeline of your achievements and keep it in a Google Doc.
Kate Toon:
And it’s like that thing where you say put a nice note in a jar every time something good happens and then at the end of year, read it out and you’re like, “Wow, this was actually an amazing year.” Because on your bad days, you’ll be like, “I’m a failure. None of my pictures are being accepted. I’ve got no client work coming up. I am not good at this.” But that little document, I don’t know. It saved me in my dark room.
Vishma Mistry:
I will have that. I will have that. I probably do need to do that actually because at the moment, my husband’s the one that’s saying to me, “Hey, see how far you’ve come. Not many women can do this. Not many people will do this, to go out-
Kate Toon:
Oh, he sounds like a keeper. That’s great. You need a cheerleader. But the thing is, we know deep down that we need to be our own cheerleader.
Vishma Mistry:
Absolutely.
Kate Toon:
No one’s coming to save us Vishma, we’ve got to save ourselves. So let’s finish up with your tip that you’d like to pass on to all newbie copywriters.
Vishma Mistry:
Yeah. So look, just don’t hesitate to pick up the phone. Don’t hesitate to put yourself out there. Just do it. The worst that’s going to happen is someone will put the phone down on you, but-
Kate Toon:
It’s never happened? Has that happen?
Vishma Mistry:
A couple of times actually. I just go, “Okay then.”
Kate Toon:
And you have a good day.
Vishma Mistry:
Onto the next one.
Kate Toon:
That takes some nerves of steel. But I think that lovely British accent will be serving you well, that will get you-
Vishma Mistry:
But I think also it’s understanding that you are there for your client. You’re there for them, not for yourself. So one of the biggest things I will say is when you talk to them, try and understand them, listen to them. I know you’re pitching for yourself, but the first thing they don’t want to hear that you’re there for yourself. They want to hear that you’re there for them. So one of the things that I do, and there’s a pitch tip that might work for newbies is, ask them about their business. Say you want to learn more about them. That’s why you are calling. You want to learn about what their vision is, and trying to engage what exactly they want. And then you can maybe bring in your module there and how you can help. But number one it’s like, well, without knowing what you’re going to help, how can you help?
Kate Toon:
Yeah. And people love talking about themselves and they love talking about their business. It’s their baby as we just said so if you get people on the flow of talking about their business, good stuff comes out and then you can respond to that as you said. So no, I love it. I think the pitching thing I think it is something that copywriters need to get used to, but if you want to start gently, I loved your indirect pitching idea and really considering it every piece of content you put out there, every time you share some client work or even a social media post, that is indirect pitching. It’s a great way of looking at it.
Kate Toon:
Often my early blog posts that I did not on my own site, because obviously no one other than my mum was looking at my own site, I did a lot of guest posting and people would read that content and they would just say, “I like the way you write and I would like our copy to sound like that.” So as you said, it was selling, but without selling. So that made it-
Vishma Mistry:
Exactly.
Kate Toon:
I love that. Vishma, you’re a revelation. I’m so chuffed that you’re a member of our community. I’m so glad that you’re the first newbie episode of the Clever Copy Chats pod.
Vishma Mistry:
Yes.
Kate Toon:
So yes. So thank you so much for today. And where can people find out more about you? Where’s the best place to find you online?
Vishma Mistry:
So my website is mistryofwords-
Kate Toon:
Love it.
Vishma Mistry:
.com. So it’s M-I-S-T-R-Y and yeah, you can call follow me on social media. So I’m on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, again at mistry of words, or you can just follow me directly on Vishma Mistry-
Kate Toon:
Fantastic.
Vishma Mistry:
… on LinkedIn. Yeah.
Kate Toon:
Fantastic. I’m going to include links to all Vishma’s profiles and her website in the show notes. So go and check her out. Vishma, thank you so much for today.
Vishma Mistry:
Yeah. Thank you so much for the opportunity and the chat.
Kate Toon:
Well, it has to be said, Vishma is a bit of a legend. That’s the end of this week show people. If you want to grab more copywriting or business tips or marketing tips, join the Misfit Entrepreneur group on Facebook. So yeah. Thank you so much Vishma. Go and check out all her links, and also thank you to Christy Ala333 from Australia for the lovely review. Ala wrote, copywriting podcast can be a little bit dry. I agree. This one is moist. Okay. No. She didn’t say that, that’s me. But this one is different, from start finish. You’ll find yourself listening eagerly as Kate discusses topics covering everything from neurodiversity, to balancing family and work commitments, to taming your critical inner voice. I’ve never felt so seen by an auditory medium. Oh my gosh. Christy, you are percy, sorry. You are obviously a beautiful writer yourself. I love that.
Kate Toon:
I’m going to use that. Can I use that? I’ve never felt so seen by an auditory medium. Honestly, that’s tickled me that line. I love it. Anyway, what was the saying? I’ve got distracted. Thanks to you for listening. If you like the show, it would be lovely if you would leave a five star rating and review. Wherever you heard it, you’ll get a shout out on the show and don’t forget to check out the show notes for this episode at clevercopywritingschool.com, where you can learn more about Vishma, check out the useful links and leave a comment about the show. So until next time, happy writing.
